Posts : 12824
|Subject: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 5:35 am|| |
First topic message reminder :Clan mates, friends, brothers!
We are standing at the crossroads. Now it will decide, how ATS is going on. We need you now more than ever
. More than a week ago, when the server shut down and the forum was gone. More than back, when we held meetings. More than throughout the elections. We need you now. And we need to stand upright, for that what we really want.
This, my friends, and I am sorry for that, this is gonna be a long long post. But I recommend you all to read it, because it is important. I try to make it most readable as I can. I will make some visual effects and summaries, so that u will be able to pick out the most important parts.~What happened?~Last week the server shut down, and the forum were deleted. Outcast was gone. And it seemed he would never come back. We used this opportunity and we made a new start. We put our hearts and our brains together to revive the spirit and the values of ATS. And we did great work. We worked out a new system of leadership, where we all can decide now, where we all share our opinions and our power. We rebuilt a dream.
This is all now endangered to get lost again.
Outcast is back. This morning about 4 am European time he was on the server and invited few of the ATS people to listen to his announcement.
I will now here summarize the conclusion and will take a closer look later on:
- Outcast is back to overtake the control of ATS again.
- o.o and fod are going to be treated as enemies again.
- older members have higher importance and the only voice in ATS.
- even inactives are more important than newer ones.
And another point I will illuminate later on.
But here comes the hard stuff: Why did he leave then? It was a farce. He never really left. He just wanted to see what happens. “To find out the most loyal members.” ~What does that mean?~That means several things. That does tell us a lot about outcast. And it tells us a lot about the close future. It tells us that we are on the crossroads.
But I tell you: We are gonna decide which way we go. We don’t have to go where outcast wants us to go.
But step by step.
What would that mean for the clan: It would all go back. It would all happen again. The forum is gonna be set back, the server is. All our work is then gone. All our discussion is then useless. All the visions of a new brighter era are then destroyed.
No council. No public votes for the next admins and moderators. No representatives in the council. Only those “old” ATS in council. And because they are all inactive most of time, it’s only Outcast in Council. He will say who is gonna be banned. And he will ban many friends of ATS and he will even ban further ATS. Like Dudeman or Referee. His attitude will make that people cant stay in ATS, like all those people who left before and came back now. We will get in conflict with o.o again and with fod. We will all again live in fear, without being able to say our true opinion, because we are afraid outcast will do something against us. And you, as a newer member, will always be a member of a lower class in relation to those oldies.
But this isn’t all. This recent occurings tell us a lot about Outcast. And they convinced me finally and totally that this is nothing we need or can bare.~The Method~Let me first say some few words about that what Outcast did: He shut the server and the forum down… to see what happens? Who is loyal ATS?
Its like throwing a baby into the djungle and if it survives its good education? My question is, who is loyal then? The parent, leaving the child in the wilderness?
This wasn’t a step a leader should go. It is a sign of megalomania, doesn’t know his own borders, what to do, what is allowed and when to listen to the members needs.
This was a prove that Outcast finally is out of control! He didn’t have to leave. Not shutting all down. Not leaving us the server and so on. Now coming back like nothings happens is mad. So clear and easy is it. It is mad.~The announcement~Let me come net to the discussion we held yesterday, which was no discussion.
He first talked hours to Vort who played the middle man. Than me and kernow were added. And Outcast started to explain. But he was not coming to the point… we only discussed over minor things.
Like that he doesn’t like ajunta, and that he had to ignore him and herny…
The most important thing is, beside the content I listed above, his way of treating us. He ignored us. We listened to him and tried to be diplomatic. But he didn’t take any contra. We told him, we made up a new system. He just said, that the ranks stay the same. I said, that the ranks are same, we have new system for ATS in general, and he said, that the ATS values stay the same. And as I finally said, that we have a democracy now, and not longer one leader he just said that I was confused. He was ignoring everything me and kernow were saying. And this is what he does: Ignoring all those arguments against him and getting his head through.~Generally~Of course the recent happenings aren’t the only reason why we definitely have to stick to the new system.
As I said: this is just the top of the mountain. Outcast is ignoring the members, especially the newer ones, since long time now. Many people left ATS because of that. Because of Outcast. And it will happen again, as Outcast seems to get more and more crazy.
He also said, that he doesn’t care about the amount of people for or against something. But he misses. If all those, who are ATS, are against him, he definitely has to think about it. He cannot say 2+2 = 5 and saying, that’s right, doesn’t matter what the world says. Maybe it deserves respect, but it does not deserve leadership, as a leader has to see clear. And he doesn’t even see his own members.
Next point: He says, he wants only fun play in jk2. And as u see people leaving ATS because they haven’t fun anymore, and people hiding their opinion because of fear, there is no fun too.~What to do now?~Outcast is a threat for the new system and the spirit of ATS, when he is leader again. ATS will be like a zombie again.
We have to stand together, clarify what we are belonging to. To ATS… and not to Outcast. We have to stay here on this forum and on our new server. So take this great news: The new ATS Server will be there very soon. (And we still have the fod server, they are supporting us in not getting ruled again by Outcast)
U may try to talk with outcast, but u will see that he is ignoring your arguments, and that he won tlisten to u, and he will only try to get u on his side. so keep in mind what u want, dont lose ur ground!
We are all sorry that this ends like this, so violently, but if he would just has left we could have honored his image... but as he now tops his old megalomianac attitude. And as we cannot talk to him we gotta do what we can, and when it is just ignoring him.
He is praising that every action has its reaction. And he was always the one to react in his own way to thing ppl around him did. Now it is time to let him see and feel that his actions have consequences too.Outcast is back. But we wont let him steel ATS
.We are standing at the crossroads. And now its our time to decide.
And to those who still entertain doubts: just read the other topics. how the system is working... and the argues with sylba. This new era is what people want and need
. You will finally see.
Last edited by Xasomur on Sun 27 Jun 2010, 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
Posts : 1379
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:33 am|| |
the thing is, Outcast and other ppl made ATS so it is sort of his clan im just saying that we probably have to change name to prove that is our clan
Posts : 2335
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:35 am|| |
Can be but then we change if we have to. or what we do ?
Posts : 12824
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:40 am|| |
we will keep ats... till outcast and those 1,5 ppl with him left ats completely... we are more ats spirit than ever... i dont care about the names and the time... i care about the real thing... and the symbol of ATS... we are saving the symbolic... so we are saving tag... outcast can make a new thing called ILO... i love outcast...
Posts : 4987
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:41 am|| |
IBA : i ban all, and it has better look.
Posts : 2697
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:46 am|| |
Lmao both names are good.
You're welcome outcast
Posts : 2440
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 9:02 am|| |
Great speak Xasomur.
And I found this funny of what Kernow and Xasomur told me. They said Outcast did this as a test to see who was loyal. He said everyone passed but Commander, who left for o.o.
But he forgets that it was Nick, Hektor, Kernow, and I that kept everyone together. We were to ones to host a meeting, deciding the future of ATS, which lead to more meetings, creating this system, and bringing out the great ideas and potential of our members! We also secured friendship with the clans that once hated us, but not us. They hated Outcast.
We managed to bring even those that were hurt by Outcast back! Lusant, BlackKnight, Ajunta, Ref, Dudeman, Pip, Blue, etc. We managed to bring people together. We even managed to recruit one of the best ls users ever! Eternal!
We also learn not to fear anymore. We learn that "hey. I have a voice. I am going to use it". We created many things. And we felt we gained more out of this.
And here comes Outcast, to ruin it. Ignoring everything. The same thing that happen to Xasomur happened to Nick and I. When we tried to get him back in control, to show him the wrong of his ways, he ignored Nick and I. He told us to not worry, that we didn't know what we were talking about, and to play and enjoy. When I asked Outcast to test me, to see what I did know, he ignored.
Also, many don't know this, but Hektor and I were suppose to be new HC. He promised me, but this is when I left. When I came back to ATS, I talked to him. He said to wait, but he remember his word, and he would keep to it. When training Hektor, he even said after he was going to train Me and Hektor. But then he pulled the offer back. He never explained why. When I asked and asked, he ignored, saying I have gain his 100% trust, but I wasn't his friend. WTF?
So only his "friends" get HC. I asked him what I did to lose it, but all he said was I didn't know much, but to learn. I told him I helped Hektor, I was admin longer than him. I taught Kernow, our great Pilgrim friend! But he ignored me.
Now all will say "but that is power and your complaining. You got HC in the end." Yes I did. But I felt that I got cheated. That he was making false LIES. He promised me, and even told Hektor. And for yet a reason I have seen, he took it back. Now I know it is admin, but it is like promising your friend this great toy, a toy that is the best, and then decides to keep it for himself, despite he promised alot.
Do you want this man as your leader? A man to make promises, but doesn't fullfill them? A man that won't listen to reason, but only his own? A man that believes he knows all, when he hasn't been in jk2 as long as most good friends of mine? A man that bans on sight, and claims to wanting fun?
I have always liked Outcast. But I draw the line.
Great post Xasomur again. And I am proud to see all these people that want a free, great ATS community.
Posts : 113
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 9:15 am|| |
GREAT SPEECH XASO AN MEREEL!! That the people we need to move us
Ppl that is Wise, their humility and heart by bellieveng in all of usa and following a person they knew it was taking the wrong path..bur they were loyal im happy to have u GUYS AS HC!!
This clan will never die
Posts : 12824
Posts : 113
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 9:40 am|| |
LOL good to see u like it xD it has been my sign since i joined ATS
Posts : 4357
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 9:46 am|| |
karma for mereel. This kind of sprit is amazing, and with this support that we have for one another, we will never crumble.
think back a couple of weeks, when outcast left. The whole of ATS was in chaos! Nobody knew what was going on, everybody had doubts, but in the end that didnt matter. It was our unity and our loyalty that kept us togther. We have all worked hard to contribute, we have a all set about rebuilding the world and the legacy that was torn away from us.
It is only our passion and our love for ATS that we have managed to start the new era that is upon us! The team spirt we all share is contagagous, only spreading from one person to then next (with a couple of exceptions). Now that we all feel the same way, we cannot put that passion for ATS in jeopardy. WE MUST FIGHT TO THE DEATH! Its is because of this mutual passion for ATS that we rose up from the jaws of defeat and began to focus on creating a new revolutionary ATS. A strong ats in which we were all agreed and united.
Outcast leaving was a blessing in disguise, it has allowed so many persecuted people who did not deserve to be cast away from ATS to return and start afresh.
Now however is the pinnicle of our ploy! Outcast has returned and threatens to once again destroy all that in which our great new council has worked so hard to build. You say that outcast planned this choatic event and set havok amongst us to "TEST OUR LOYALTY".
I dont buy that. He destroyed the old server and forum and left doubt and despair in his wake. I think this was intentional and that he is using our loyalty as a cover story for his betrayal! Now he wants back in because he realises what he has lost, or maybe he just wants to undo everything again i dont know. However in my eyes we must avoid outcast taking ATS back at all costs.
If he seriously did do this to test us then i guess he's shot himself in the foot! Because we passed! And we passed with flying colours. We have shown loyalty to such a degree that we were and still are prepared to make radical descitions for the benift of all in ATS.
Pahaps Outcast did not expect it but, our loyalty was in fact so strong that we are prepared to defy its very founder, who in a crewl irony has come to threaten and destroy all what we have achived in the past couple of weeks and everything which we might achive in the future.
HONOURABLE REPRESENTITIVES OF ATS I SAY:
"WE MUST NOT SINK BENITH OUR ANGUISH! BUT BATTLE ON!"
Last edited by Phoenix on Tue 22 Dec 2009, 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total
Posts : 10541
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 9:47 am|| |
Ok Xaso great speech man! Amazing debatist! Quality Quantity and Awesomeness!
So I will try to be as truthful as I can here goes: I fear outcast, I am ashamed to admit it but at the same time people must praise me for having the balls to say it. I am afraid that if I fell out of favour I would be banned or kicked out, or my chances of having admin would fall and my chances of climbing up the ATS ladder would decrease.
I always try to be the middle man. I like to please my friends and to please my leaders. I learn from both and I greatly respect both, its the fact that it seems to me that Outcast has the banhammer of all banhammers and if I spoke up I would be cast out. The forum not being under his control is of some advantage.
Perhaps i should give my honest opinion: After all outcast you teach me to 'ear' to be a TEAM and to respect people, to be honest, but not give in to rats: ATS morals surely?! I certainly do not trust some people in 0.0 and FOD but i don't hate them all, each player is unique. But I always am willing to re-accept people.
I do not agree that inactive members should be kept in power and position. Don't get me wrong I think the importance of our clan history is invaluable. It teaches us lessons, who to be aware of and who have done ATS great favours. Now as to the topic of ownership some think it is the founder others think it is the people. I think it is the people that keep its morals alive and running, keeping everyone under one flag and making sure that the clan is ALIVE.
I do not agree with dictatorship, real life history has taught us that men with self-claim to leadership = eventual and inevitable dissolution of the state: Hitler...Mussolini....Franco....Mosley.....Stalin.....That cuba guy who i stupidely can't remember (xD)..castro someone? Anyway yes it doesn't work, people vote for leaders deserving of power and position. People active and emphathetic with the aims and emotions of their members!
Also Outcast I think that ignoring people doesn't help. Now don't get me wrong, your effort into this clan has been stupendous! amazing! congtulatory! You formed a clan, community, friends, people etc......I thank you for this. But dude you must stop holding on to your admin with such venemous defense. Sometimes you just have to share, I mean the reason why this is happening is because its just built up and up from banning members like Eternal without justification, and from being such a censor, if you had grip over this forum would this topic be active?
Dude I respect you as a friend, as a player, as a famous historical figure who brought so many people together but i don't respect your methods. I'm sorry, I said to you I will follow the body of ATS as I am one part of a big machine that needs all parts in order to operate. Teamwork, something you taught me. I will leave you with Christopher Marlowe's famous line which i told to everyone but you:
"What are kings when all regiment are gone, but perfect shadows in a sunshine day."
___________________IT'S A TRAP!Onen hag Oll
Posts : 5185
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 10:16 am|| |
well said kern! if we accept outcast back we will be like China,Communist,we want to be free of communsim and tyranny,we want to be free! Thank you. ~BDL
Posts : 93
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 10:54 am|| |
Great summary Xaso. I agree with it 100%. I told Outcast that we were loyal to ATS, and respect Outcast as a player. The reason why Outcast came back(based on what he told me) was because nobody would listen to Max. However, we did listen to Max. In fact, we listened and gave a compromise, which he in turn agreed to try out this system.
Eversince, ATS was revived with a new system, enemies became allies.... hate became like.... hostility became trust.... and most importantly, ATS members became happy. I've not seen such a proud looking group of players, without a thorn getting ready to puncture their necks if they speak out.
In my opinion, Outcast's method to test the loyal members was unnecessary. That proves that Outcast does not trust his own members that he recruited. This may be harsh to say, but its true. We are people, not dolls who get tossed around.
In conclusion, Outcast came to give certain members an opportunity to become ATS admins. Which means that there is a fork in the road. Now guys, ill leave this decision for you. Which road do you guys want to take?
P.S - There's a chance we may need to change names. Why? Because Outcast founded ATS, just because we changed the system to a better liking of the members does not give us the right of the name. He and some other players did find the clan. The reason we chose to keep this name is because we thought the founder left for good, so we decided to change the connotation of the name "ATS". Disagree with me as you like, but I'm just saying there's a chance we may need to.
Posts : 12824
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:01 am|| |
We are more ATS than outcast was since months and will be from now... i dont care about him claiming that ats is HIS... he cannot decide...
im still FOR keeping name... but i see ur point
Posts : 286
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:08 am|| |
he can decided with maximus
Posts : 93
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:10 am|| |
Xaso, we must take into consideration of others feelings too, ally or enemy =). Think about how Outcast would feel. Now, if you raised a business for video games... but a manager decided to take the name and the employees with him, how would you feel? I know he treated us as if we are kids, but we mustn't return the same favor for him.
Posts : 12824
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:14 am|| |
he doesnt have to leace.. he is welcomed to make a new start here... in this system...
and i said i see ur point... but the name is a matter of content... and the content is ATS... more than outcasts group... the content is outcast and friends... OAF...
Posts : 93
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:17 am|| |
Agreed, I also see your point, thats why I don't disagree =). I don't think Outcast will join this system =P.
Posts : 113
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 11:31 am|| |
Ill also keep the name i dont think it has an owner ..why?? cause i like it..it remembers me of lot of things..its a flag i like to use cause what it represents "THE TORCH OF FAIR PLAY" i like the moral values it represents, i also think outcast is getting back cause he have seen what he left..why i said so sure?? cause he was leaving in another time a looong time ago he was leaving and he was going to delete ATS i know it cause the own Outcast told us (lusant is also a aprt of this little story) but he decide no to cause lusant,X-Jedi,Hektor,Mereel,BlueNinja,PurpleVinegar,Max,Gich,Sylba and others contribute to mantain the clan ALIVE by playing doing his work as admins, being active on forums and other helping the new recruits to learn how to play clearing their doubts and teaching them all they needed to became great players
, and most of em are here, Meree,Lusant,BlueNinja,Hektor... and thats why i wanna keep ATS as my tag..as my FLAG!! to show the JK2 communnity what is its meaning..as mi sign says ..LET THE TORCH OF FAIR PLAY BURN!!!
Posts : 93
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:12 pm|| |
I respect that BlackKnight, and well said my friend . To each their own opinions.
Posts : 833
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 12:45 pm|| |
Posts : 166
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 1:41 pm|| |
<3 te amo wey
- BlackKnight wrote:
- Ill also keep the name i dont think it has an owner ..why?? cause i like it..it remembers me of lot of things..its a flag i like to use cause what it represents "THE TORCH OF FAIR PLAY" i like the moral values it represents, i also think outcast is getting back cause he have seen what he left..why i said so sure?? cause he was leaving in another time a looong time ago he was leaving and he was going to delete ATS i know it cause the own Outcast told us (lusant is also a aprt of this little story) but he decide no to cause lusant,X-Jedi,Hektor,Mereel,BlueNinja,PurpleVinegar,Max,Gich,Sylba and others contribute to mantain the clan ALIVE by playing doing his work as admins, being active on forums and other helping the new recruits to learn how to play clearing their doubts and teaching them all they needed to became great players , and most of em are here, Meree,Lusant,BlueNinja,Hektor... and thats why i wanna keep ATS as my tag..as my FLAG!! to show the JK2 communnity what is its meaning..as mi sign says ..LET THE TORCH OF FAIR PLAY BURN!!!
Posts : 286
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 1:49 pm|| |
por lo menos respeta las reglas y no insultes
Posts : 5185
|Subject: Re: The Determination Tue 22 Dec 2009, 8:56 pm|| |
I think we should put up Poll for his return......but the outcome is very obvious......
Posts : 26
|Subject: Re: The Determination Wed 23 Dec 2009, 12:17 am|| |
Dont listen Henry ^^ They just dont know and dont understand.It comes from the one ear and goes off the other
Xasomur did great job writing those things Bu the peoblem is that he wrote many many bad and wrong things.THe things that you write Are not True....
Man find your own clan and do those things this is ATS it was founded by Max Outcast Gich Huraccan you can not do anything to change.
|Subject: Re: The Determination Today at 11:47 am|| |