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 Hmm?

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Grimmjow



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PostSubject: Hmm?   Wed 23 Dec 2009, 10:20 pm

First topic message reminder :

Why u guys use jeditracker out in the side instead of gametracker, gametracker is way better :O
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Sat 26 Dec 2009, 10:01 am

AMPSAY I was waffling about whether to give it to SA or not. AMFLY I was pretty certain I did not think SA should have. I'll explain my reasoning and we can perhaps go from there.

I started by thinking about what I thought the roles of each admin level should be.

For HC, the primary purpose was maintaining the server and its settings, and the secondary purpose was creating a fun environment on the server. I felt it was reasonable to assume that HCs were responsible enough to not inappropriately use commands with high potential for abuse, and since they are indeed the highest level admin, the secret commands and a few player-modifying commands were included as well. One command group and many CVARS that are a security risk or that are counter-productive to use in-game were excluded from the HC's available rights.

For DC, I saw a combined purpose of enforcing rules and facilitating a fun experience, and largely these two things go hand-in-hand. DC was not given certain commands such as SLAP whose use is limited with respect to rule enforcement and whose potential for being construed as "abuse" by player targets is high. DC was given many tools for enforcing rules, such as BAN, KICK, SILENCE, SLEEP, FREEZE, RENAME, TOGGLE/BANCMDS, and MOTD. Additionally, DC was given many tools to help facilitate a fun experience on the server, including GET, PSAY, EMPOWER, TERMINATOR, TELEPORT, MAPS, and EXEC.

For SA, I felt the goal should be to focus on effectively enforcing rules while learning to achieve the best reaction from the target possible. To do this, certain commands with relatively higher potential for abuse were excluded so that the admins can focus on resolving things in a calmer manner. Because the commands for entertaining the server also have a potential for abuse, I only granted SA the ability to execute server configs that have been preset, and therefore should work properly. EXECing a .cfg that doesn't exist has no effect, but trying to load a map that doesn't exist on the server causes it to crash, and since I already felt the focus of SA should be rule enforcement, I did not include the MAPS command. Commands available to SA include SLEEP, KICK, MOTD, RENAME, TOGGLE/BANCMDS, and BASIC viewing of status/IP and checking to see if an IP is banned.

---

With that being said, I didn't include AMPSAY in SA because getting a player's attention is already more than achievable using SLEEP, and beyond that use its primary function is posting messages involving events. AMPSAY does have a role in asking people to clear a dueling area, and this type of use was the primary reason why I was waffling on the decision of whether to include it or not. I ended up deciding that the potential for annoying players with its obtrusive nature outweighed the infrequent situations where it is used to ask for people to clear the dueling area, which is already possible to some degree just chatting in-game.

As for FLY, this is mostly just a fun ability that has some role in helping an admin get around and get to places normally inaccessible. I didn't see a reason that an SA focusing on dealing with lamers and working on conflict resolution would need this command. In general, I was striving to keep SA admin as normal-appearing as possible to other players so that the position can be used to learn how to exercise dutiful restraint in using admin, which is not exactly exemplified when an admin is whizzing through walls. This of course is not to say that an admin must always be strict and noble like this, but that SA is a good opportunity to learn the many benefits of this lesson.

---

Let me know your thoughts.
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Sat 26 Dec 2009, 10:21 am

ampsay-Well, I have never ever liked using sleep, in fact that is my least favorite command to use, plus, people call you an "abuser" once you sleep them, so using ampsay will be able to get someones attention without really causing any trouble.

amfly-Sometimes, when there is a place you need to go to on the map, and go there quickly you can use amfly instead of having to go through a bunch of corridors and such and create a big hassle. Plus, getting to places like the training area or the doomroom to go afk. Amfly is very useful if you want to go afk, as it can put you behind a wall or something like that.

Teleports-Not necesary, but certainly something that would be extremely useful. For example, you just sleeped someone so they would stop laming someone, and to make sure they get the point you can teleport them to you and tell them to you and force them to listen to be unsleeped. When you are training someone and you want to go to the training room because there are less people there, its quite useful so you can duel in peace.
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Sat 26 Dec 2009, 2:52 pm

OMG...i just spend 20 mins writing a responce....internet cut out...i lost about 500 words.... -_-

Ok let me try and remember:

Nick I think your point on the role of each admin is very agreeable, it certainly shows the power and position of each member and gives them a certain role to think about. There are however a few queries I have.

I big debate is with SA and the commands they should have, Blue i would say that ampsay is in iteself a very good way of making yourself known as admin, it is a self-declarative statement on power and position and identifies you very clearly as admin. In order for you to fit your role as being subtle in reinforcing rules then having ampsay doesn't help. Sleep does double the attention grabbing as ampsay as it renders the player useless, ampsay is only good for gettin people to move or to highlight something to someone. A sleep and pm does this job just as well.

With amfly 1 and 2 indeed it is another way of grabbing attention, it shows you out to be admin as a possible lamer will stop laming once they know you are admin. I suggest SA having amfly only, the invisible command. Of course this fly means you cannot be seen, and it is a perfect way to spy on people without attracting attention. You can't move through walls but you can follow any other normal player and find out their true nature.

I think also Blue you refer to goto and get not the actual creation of teleports. These I do not mind so much with, yes it could identify you as an admin easily but it also is a cheif aim to get people's attention. However SA is all about being resourceful and creative with limited choices. I am open to debate on this and don't mind the outcome should it come to a vote, it IS useful and less attention grabbin than some bloke flyin over ure heads.

However while sayin give SA amfly (not 1 or 2) and possibly goto and get, i say take away ambanforce and ambantoggle. These ban commands are nothing that a simple sleep can't accomplish, it is a method to subdue the aggresor but at the same time it doesn't just hinder them but totally stun them from any sort of fight. Combined the two are just as good as a sleep, so takin these away might be a good idea. However once more i am open to debate.

With regard to DC I am glad you took away animent, it is unnecassary to my role and only a further distraction for the mid-admin. However I do appeal for summon to be for DC as well, now this has many uses: it is a statement of power, a method of humiliation, a demonstration of control and an effective restraint of an abusive player. I remember I lamed lots and an admin summoned me; i was like "Woah! Ok i'll stop laming now i'm sorry xD" - it is effective for the newb and the nab. I am open to all arguments on this matter.

~K.P


i had more somewhere in my brain....damn internet...

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Purplez
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Sat 26 Dec 2009, 3:09 pm

Suggestion:
I agree with Kernow on all that (worth the 20 minutes, man Wink) and I think that they should have amfly. But since all production on DCMoD has stopped, it's closed source, and the config only allows you to enable amfly itself, not limiting by the value that follows the variable. So, in other words, you have to have the entire amfly command, not just regular, 1, or 2. Now I trust that they will use amfly only. But sometimes people have friends over or siblings and want to show off if no other clan member is there, thus probably breaking the amfly only rule. Now my suggestion for Nick and Mereel, (if you want to use amfly) is to just check the logs every couple days and just use Ctrl+F and search 'amfly' and find the instances in which it was used for SA Admins, and if they remain loyal to the agreement, allow the use of amfly.

I also agree the bantoggles are not needed. Sleep is good enough.

I say that amget and amgoto would give yourself away as an admin, thus failing in the subtle category. However, if you used amfly and wanted to use them on someone, it would be less likely they would see you and benefit to being unknown.


[Just my thoughts on the subject, if they mean anything.]


Last edited by Purplez on Sat 26 Dec 2009, 5:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Sat 26 Dec 2009, 3:19 pm

Lol dude, amfly 2 is a punishment fly. amfly 1 is no-clip and amfly is invisible.

I really don't like to use admin that much anymore except for when I need to get some place I use no-clip a few times. Toggle is not necessary and I prefer killing someone instead of sleeping them. Give you training, and if its a noob, then no big deal Razz With get and goto, you guys are right, but I won't use it unless I want to get someone into the training room or something like that.

Oh, and I change names a lot as you may have noticed so people won't recognize me, and I have about 20 or so name cfgs Razz so I won't use my name if I just want to scout things out.
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 3:55 am

Can DC enable vote?

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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Mon 28 Dec 2009, 2:46 pm

Another question....

CAN SOMEONE (HC) ANSWER!?!?!???

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Hektor



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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 12:46 am

Ye, i asked Nick and he said, ppl can get RCON pass over this. so no....
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 4:01 am

/amrcon dc_enablevoting 1 is the command, but I have /amrcon exec so I don't know why not...
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mereel
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 4:44 am

Me and Nick had a talk with boss, and it seems enabling downloading or voting makes the server easier to hack. So sorry, but no voting is allowed. :/
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 9:55 am

Thats ok now - i only wanted it to go to forest house cos i didn't know the command but i know it now so np! Very Happy

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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 10:16 am

What I think he meant is to enable it for a minute so they won't have to do the entire forest house code with colors and all.
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Tue 29 Dec 2009, 12:05 pm

Hmm i just save the bind on a word doecument and quickly come off...copy and paste it when i come back on....its probably better than actually coding on the console! ^^

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PostSubject: Re: Hmm?   Today at 1:28 am

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