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 /Kill in CTF

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Should killing yourself be allowed?
/Kill (yeah ^^)
50%
 50% [ 10 ]
/Nil (nooo <.<)
50%
 50% [ 10 ]
Total Votes : 20
 

AuthorMessage
Phoenix
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 4357

PostSubject: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 10:33 am

I was having a discussion with nick and mereel during CTF, i had issues with them killing themselves in battle in order to respawn at base faster. I said it was underhanded, nick and mereel believe it is legit. What are all of your opinions?
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Grimlore



Posts : 1888

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 10:53 am

I agree with you phoe Wink
I think it makes things unbalanced, and unfair to other players. Sad
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sebbat
Sith Lord
Sith Lord


Posts : 6167

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 11:08 am

Its a good strategy
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Ajunta Pall
Legend
Legend


Posts : 4987

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 11:46 am

it's not a strategy. You have powers to go faster, jump to do bunny hop and go faster, going through a map fastly is a skill, so using kill is not unlegit, but it's not a well played thing.

You give less interest to the game, ctf is supposed to be real strategy. In other games like counter strike, if terrorists plant the bomb near ct spawn and you are at the other corner of the map you don't kill yourself, you run. It's same here, if you have to get back fast to base, then use your legs x)
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Phoenix
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 4357

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:04 pm

I agree aju, plus getting killed by somebody who has just respawned (especially if u have just killed them!) is the most frustrating thing ever.

I actually proposed a respawn delay, but i dont know what happened with that issue, i think it just got forgotton about. (or maybe it wasnt technically possible)
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Ajunta Pall
Legend
Legend


Posts : 4987

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:17 pm

we don't give enough importance to our life in jk2. I think people should stop rushing and die all the time, taking more care to their health and trying to die the less possible. It would give a real interest to the game i think.
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Phoenix
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 4357

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:24 pm

Yeah, like once you u die you have to switch the game off and not play again until you have been to hospital? Razz
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Ajunta Pall
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Legend


Posts : 4987

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:29 pm

no, but wait more, so that you get bored to wait all the time, and try to survive more.
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NickdeClaw
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Posts : 3076

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 12:36 pm

Aju the CS example is preposterous. CS is played in rounds, JK2 CTF is constant respawning. You don't kill yourself in CS because if you do you're totally worthless until the next round commences. The analogy is completely ridiculous. /kill in CTF is not primarily about getting back to your base faster, it's getting full Force. In 0 regen it's not as important, but in 200 regen it takes forever to get your Force back. Killing yourself is a tradeoff that requires thought: you kill yourself to get full Force, but that also means you are put in a random location back on your side, which means if you were hunting someone with the flag you might not be near them.

Respawn delay is not possible, and it's not needed in JK2 since we aren't capturing waypoints as in Enemy Territory or TF2.

Killing yourself isn't a strategy, it's a tactic. You use it to get back to your base after you've accomplished or failed to accomplish a goal, and that way you get full Force again. There is nothing innately right or wrong about /kill, it doesn't "give a real interest to the game" to wait for your Force to regen for 40 seconds during which time you're relatively useless.

This is the question that no one will be able to answer: why is /kill underhanded?

People who don't like /kill are usually the ones who refuse to use it, and people using /kill typically kill them because of how useful a tactic it is. It's part of basejk's default settings for CTF, the only reason we can ban it is due to DCMod.

Here's the issue: 200 regen CTF needs /kill due to how long it takes to regen Force. It's not about getting back to your base, although in some situations it may be used that way. It's primarily about getting back to full Force. I like 200 regen CTF because people can't be RAMBO staying alive all the time. In 200 regen CTF, you have to carefully choose when to use and when not to use powers, because your Force pool is limited. But it's boring as hell waiting 40 seconds all the time to regen your Force so you can take another run at the flag.

I say don't knock it 'til you try it. There's no logical reason for saying it's underhanded other than some people use it more than others, and that in and of itself isn't a reason, it's just bias on both sides. There is no JK2 god that says you cannot kill yourself to get full Force or go back to your base. You may want it to be that way, but I don't, and most people who play CTF a lot don't either. The reason is because it makes the experience more enjoyable if you utilize it.
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Commander Bacara



Posts : 714

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 1:14 pm

NickdeClaw wrote:

Here's the issue: 200 regen CTF needs /kill due to how long it takes to regen Force. It's not about getting back to your base, although in some situations it may be used that way. It's primarily about getting back to full Force. I like 200 regen CTF because people can't be RAMBO staying alive all the time. In 200 regen CTF, you have to carefully choose when to use and when not to use powers, because your Force pool is limited. But it's boring as hell waiting 40 seconds all the time to regen your Force so you can take another run at the flag.

Agree with that =3
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mereel
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 2440

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 1:33 pm

I agree with Nick, due to the fact it was me and him arguing about it.
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 1:41 pm

Excellent reason Mereel xD
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Phoenix
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 4357

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 2:28 pm

Ive just had a thought. Is it possible to change ctf so that its in rounds? If u die thats it until everybody else dies, or somebody scores. Then u respawn.

Im guessing its not possible...
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NickdeClaw
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Legend


Posts : 3076

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 2:30 pm

Wouldn't make sense with CTF. But deathmatch with rounds, that would be fun. It's not possible with basejk or our mod, but there are mods that do it, such as Movie Battles.
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mereel
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 2440

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 3:08 pm

Yes it is a very excellent reason why. <:
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Lucifer
Legend
Legend


Posts : 2324

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 4:19 pm

Agreed with Nick, BTW PHOENIX i will change your colors due to your all-out efforts to make me change LOL, so i will change the colors around, wont be as cool but still will work..
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Dragon
Jedi Master
Jedi Master


Posts : 671

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 7:51 pm

/kill make ctf more easily
Becouse you can give flag for other guy in your team when you do /kill
I vote No
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Axel
Sith Lord
Sith Lord


Posts : 1303

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 9:56 pm

kill ftw ^_^
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Kernow Pilgrim
Legend
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Posts : 10542

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Mon 26 Jul 2010, 11:18 pm

I vote no.

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Phoenix
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 4357

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 12:54 am

@lucifer. Look mate, i know it my sound harsh, but the style and colour of my name is pretty unique, ive never seen anybody do red/yellow the way i have done it b4, and my name makes my special in my opinion, its the one thing i take pride in.

Ask the lads what i was like that time a guy called "Darth Phoenix" logged onto our server. I felt harsh getting him to change, but he did so (with a little fuss), but idk, im kinda protective over my name and style, because ive had i since day 1.

Also you did say on forum that when u changed ur name to lucifer, you were going to use colours like mine, but i didnt think you meant exactly the effing same LOL.

You dont have to change it that drastically, but some white or black in there, swap a couple of things around, im not asking for the world, you wouldnt like it if somebody copied your name or style would you? (to be honest i would even want to have a name like somebody elses, i need origionality. If somebody was phoenix or use red/yellow b4 me, i would change immediately, especially if they were in the same clan)

Honestly mate i dont want to upset you, its nothing personal but my name, my colours and my skin all go hand in hand. Idk if you have seen my skin (its actually kernows ^^) but you would understand how suited to me it is, and everything, my skin, my name and my colours all work in unity Smile

No hard feelings mate, i appreciate you making an effort to modify it Wink
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Hektor



Posts : 5206

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 1:25 am

why cant i cancel my vote ? - . - ... i accidently voted no ...
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Grimlore



Posts : 1888

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 2:32 am

sebbat wrote:
Its a good strategy


a good strategy to look n00b -______-
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mereel
Sith Warrior
Sith Warrior


Posts : 2440

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 3:07 am

Lol @ Hektor. We will just remember to consider one of the votes that is no is actually yes. ^^

Guys, you still don't get it. Only with 200 regen is selfkill effective.

Now say we were playing normal CTF. The CTF were you can push or pull spam, and regen is 0. Then selfkill would be stupid, cause it doesn't gain you shit! In 100 regen with guns, it can be used a bit to get better spawns, but yeah not as big as a deal. But in 200 regen it is almost a good thing, and for the reasons Nick stated. For one, it helps you regain your force very fast. Take for example you are running, and you capped the flag, but you have NO force. You want to wait a solid minute for it to recharge, or just selfkill and regain it instantly? Also if you are lucky, it can get you a better spawn, which is very good if you are the flag runner, or if you need to get back your flag.

You will come to find there will be people that abuse it, but selfkill is a natural part of 200 regen CTF. In any other CTF I would agree with you guys, but for 200, and maybe 100, selfkill is needed, and has always been a part of it.
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Xasomur
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Legend


Posts : 12854

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 4:26 am

this is so hypocrit. they take 1 hour to discuss with me that i shall get the fly a kite used to 200 regen and they are the boons that kill themselves to get force. this is so shit.
but what really bothers me is that it steals your points. everyones killing himself and only the flag carriesrs get points. this is so suxy, because those falg carriers always point out their 1000 points. but in fact their work was run, abs and run faster... the real work was done by others. but they dont get any reward.
besides that selfkill always seems like that the fight between two ppl wasnt won by anyone. i mean i fight there and then i finally could throw him down. but he only selfkills and is back in 1 second. it is so shitty. it takes all the fun.
besides that 200 regen is shit.

lol, but i could even understand if you do self kill in both: 0 and 200 regen. but that you only do it 200 regen is an evidence for a hypocrit and evil and dark character Razz


sometimes i ask myself is phoenix really my pada... and then he makes such polls and then i see: yes, he really is!!! ^^ you speak from my heart <3

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Ajunta Pall
Legend
Legend


Posts : 4987

PostSubject: Re: /Kill in CTF   Tue 27 Jul 2010, 4:46 am

Xasomur wrote:
this is so hypocrit. they take 1 hour to discuss with me that i shall get the fly a kite used to 200 regen and they are the boons that kill themselves to get force. this is so shit.

rofl best. Xaso got best point here.
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