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 Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.

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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Sun 05 Sep 2010, 4:30 am

First topic message reminder :

Tiger you should leave Outcast, especially if Ralen is a friend. Outcast is dictator and Kyle is one of his henchman. Join SOL and you will be much happier.

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PS- this is coming from person most banned ever by Outcast.
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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Mon 06 Sep 2010, 8:40 pm

1) I can kick no script better then you xaso.
2) I can do everything else in jk2 better then you.
3) If you think scripts are cheats then why do so many in SOL use scripts?
4) Sit kicks have been around since JA MOD, which it was much harder to do in but
hackers ruined that mod. I'd love to see you do one and laugh.
5) You don't understand what I meant by game changers. So get a f'in clue would you.
6) It's tales not tails, learn english. A tail is what a dog has above his ass.
7) I think you meant, "you have to make your argument" not argumentation.
Cool My gf said last night I'm cute and don't need to look in the mirror. I am cute. I'm half norwegian.
9) You don't like me around these guys but I think I was around them before you were. So
F you.
10) You started shit with me before and you just prove what an as shole you are again.
11) I think Nick has nothing to do with the shit between you and I, or the rest of SOL for that
matter. You're just some unhappy di ck that likes to be an as shole because his life sucks.
12) And to think this all started because I felt sorry for you for being p wned in a tourney by a scripter. Sad, very sad. What a dumba ss you are.

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Battledroidlover
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Mon 06 Sep 2010, 8:51 pm

wehr wrote:
1) I can kick no script better then you xaso.
2) I can do everything else in jk2 better then you.
3) If you think scripts are cheats then why do so many in SOL use scripts?
4) Sit kicks have been around since JA MOD, which it was much harder to do in but
hackers ruined that mod. I'd love to see you do one and laugh.
5) You don't understand what I meant by game changers. So get a f'in clue would you.
6) It's tales not tails, learn english. A tail is what a dog has above his ass.
7) I think you meant, "you have to make your argument" not argumentation.
Cool My gf said last night I'm cute and don't need to look in the mirror. I am cute. I'm half norwegian.
9) You don't like me around these guys but I think I was around them before you were. So
F you.
10) You started shit with me before and you just prove what an as shole you are again.
11) I think Nick has nothing to do with the shit between you and I, or the rest of SOL for that
matter. You're just some unhappy di ck that likes to be an as shole because his life sucks.
12) And to think this all started because I felt sorry for you for being p wned in a tourney by a scripter. Sad, very sad. What a dumba ss you are.

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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 4:14 am

Wehr wrote:
3) If you think scripts are cheats then why do so many in SOL use scripts?

Wehr we always like to know these people. We know Grimm does - Natural punishments apply for him. Phantom isn't a member of SoL - She has failed her membership poll now - Aju doesn't use a KS wearng the SoL flag against non-scripting/cheating players.

So please tell us who are these people, I'd am thankful for your information.

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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 4:32 am

You think this is some angelic clan. I'm just trying to point out to you guys the truth and you're blind to it. You should read back thru all my posts and listen this time. I even gave you great ideas to make sure you have fairplay in tournaments. Phantom is just a scratch on the surface and you guys punish her. You need to get to the heart of the matter and it lies much higher within your ranks.

Truth be it told, if you think scripts are unclean then ATS is the more virtuous clan, from the non-scripting point of view.
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 5:04 am

wehr wrote:
Truth be it told, if you think scripts are unclean then ATS is the more virtuous clan, from the non-scripting point of view.

lol, made me laugh much, even if it is ironic, it sounds so real lol.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 5:53 am

wehr wrote:
1) I can kick no script better then you xaso.
2) I can do everything else in jk2 better then you.
3) If you think scripts are cheats then why do so many in SOL use scripts?
4) Sit kicks have been around since JA MOD, which it was much harder to do in but
hackers ruined that mod. I'd love to see you do one and laugh.
5) You don't understand what I meant by game changers. So get a f'in clue would you.
6) It's tales not tails, learn english. A tail is what a dog has above his ass.
7) I think you meant, "you have to make your argument" not argumentation.
Cool My gf said last night I'm cute and don't need to look in the mirror. I am cute. I'm half norwegian.
9) You don't like me around these guys but I think I was around them before you were. So
F you.
10) You started shit with me before and you just prove what an as shole you are again.
11) I think Nick has nothing to do with the shit between you and I, or the rest of SOL for that
matter. You're just some unhappy di ck that likes to be an as shole because his life sucks.
12) And to think this all started because I felt sorry for you for being p wned in a tourney by a scripter. Sad, very sad. What a dumba ss you are.


1) definately
2) propbably
3) thats a fact maybe and its not ok. but the reason is obvious. ppl come and lame and you dont want to get ur ass kicked all the time. so you script to beat those ppl who kick your ass with ks. you make the chances even. thats not ok. but if we knew who these were we would do something
4) sure i,d love to give you that laugh. but i wouldnt spend 10 seconds to learn it, nor i would waste my time learning such shit, while i could pracitce to kick right.
5) i understand what you meant. but its not what you said. so maybe you should learn to speak at all. you have more problems with your mother tongue than i have with a foreign language. but still: you change the game to something with new stuff. and we change it back. so go and hate everybody. and try to be happy with it.
6) cool thanks, i will remember
7) nope, i meant argumentation. i see you have arguments. but you throw everything you think together, and the system comes out is far from being waterproof. it fails in the theory. ours misses the perfection of the praxis.
8 ) nice, glad to hear that. but you should really look what you say and then see the irony if you compare it with what you do. thats what i call contradiction. and when you come to me and want from me, that i take the things as you mean them, then i think i can demand from you to get the metaphor when i use it.
9) ye, you know the guys of 1.04 over the last years. its a cool thing. but as long as you cant extract some wisdom out of your experiences the things you say remain flawed. and i played this game back before the 1.04 patch was created. and i played 1.00 for years. fine. and now? this isnt helpful at all.
10) yes, even if i started, you are the one that is giving more efforts to seem stupid here Smile
11) i try to discuss with you, but you distract all the time, you dont get to the point and you feel insulted all the time and you insult all the time. nick focused on the discussion again and gave you a viable solution. that is what he's gotta do. i will be here if you want to discuss further. but fi you want to go on being a twat, you can do it alone. you should answer on my examples and arguments. something which you didnt lately. and i doubt you know anything about my life Smile
12) i also doubt you know what i think. i cant even remember how the discussion started. i would remember if it had any reason. but like this i assume it only was some flawed statement of yours.

so get back to the topic or you can play alone

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mereel
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 5:59 am

Wehr calm down. Despite it may seem like it, Xaso is not personally attacking you. Well, now you two are slinging insults, now he is. But he wasn't before. Trust me, I thought for awhile he do that to me too, but it is how he argues.


Ok, for one, Wehr is correct. Scripts are NOT cheats. It is a legitimate command that the game accepts, and the programmers put in the game. A script should be more defined as "A file that runs a series of commands, binds, or changes to ones game experience". Think about it. We ALL script. And don't deny it. Do you use a name script? Yes. I use many scripts. 8 name scripts, 1 script to change my graphic settings in game, a script to bind admin teles, and a camera script. So, in all, we all script. We probably should change our terminology if we are going to accuse a player of having an "advantage most do not have". Cause a kick script just binds a key the ability to kick, while a normal player uses the "jump" button to kick.

I believe that there is fine line between a kick script, and the normal "jump" button. I believe a normal button (like the spacebar) is too slow for kicking, and does not accept commands as fast as other buttons. Now, that is probably why some players prefer a kick script, for it provides them a simpler, faster way to kick. But I think, as Nick said, makes you kick at inhuman speeds, it is a kick script and a bit unfair. That is why I use the Mouse2 for kick, as do some players I talk to. It kicks fast enough for me, but is still my "jump" button. So there is a fine line for the speed one can kick, and I think of myself trying to stay on that line so I can get an understanding of more of how this game runs.


Now onto the problem: Wehr, we do not allow players in our clan that have a script that binds a key (Or mousewheel) a "kick" option. We think it is a bit of cheap, and most players in our clan can not beat a kick script user. Now some of us can, but remember we are a clan that provides shelter and teaching to any new player that is willing to learn. We aren't meant to be the besT, or great. We provide what is needed to run a community, and fun. Now if you can tell us what members you think uses a kick script besides Grimmjow and Phantom, that be helpful. Yes, we do understand your history, and that you have knowledge of this game. We just don't accept players in our clan that have the ability to kick at inhuman speeds. (As I stated before).


@ Kernow

Despite you sometimes do have a point, I will point this out for future reference: You may say we allow "scripts in our server as long as they don't join our clan", but from what I saw 2 days ago, you are a hypocrite. I may have not seen how it started, but I did see when you began your agrument with a player about "scripting".

From what I saw, you were fighting maxY that day. But then you stopped, he asked why, and you proceeded to say you don't fight "people with unfair advantages". Problem #1: Why do you not fight these players? Because they use the very tool that you put yourself to stand against? Yes he does use a script, but what other way will you learn but by fighting scripters? I myself learn from fighting these very players, so can you. And yes, it is a game, and that why should we play against a "team" that proceeds to "cheat" to win? The solution is in the problem. He doesn't cheat. He just has a small advantage that some players don't. I see it like a baseball player talking steroids (The legal kind, and yes there is such a thing). People think it gives a bad advantage to the players, but the ones that take it are just trying to keep ahead of the game. They are doing what they can to win. I disagree with that logic, but it is how the game is. I seen in in quite a few games. So we may not like it, but might as well suck it up, cause it happens anyway.

Then you proceed to argue with maxY of why kick scripting is wrong, and from what I saw, it looked like you were telling him off for using one. Problem #2: As I pointed out yesterday, and Tiger did in this topic, every player has that freedom of choice. If a player wants to use a kick script, then so be it! As long as he isn't trying to convert me into using one, I don't care. It is his choice, and I won't tell him otherwise. And, as long as he doesn't try to join SoL, I still don't care.

Then finally, after I got involved, you said we have rules that don't allow kick scripts on our server. Wooooo, big problem here, and it is #3: You just said in this topic that we do allow scripts on our server, as long as they aren't in our clan. Do I smell something? Why yes, it smells like fish.

We have rules for no lagging and no eVc (Have no idea why we have this rule, cause it is hard to find players that use eVc). As you said, we consider a kick script like a a drug addiction. We do have rules about no kick scripts, as long as you are not in this clan. I will continue to point this out, and probably won't stop. So maxY (I doubt he was using a ks, but I am not 100% sure) uses a kick script, so what? We don't need to tell players off for it.

Now before I get off-topic, I think the point is, we, as a clan, do not allow a certain script that binds a key a kick option that allows a player to kick at inhuman speeds. We allow other scripts (Not lagg scripts duh x) ), but not that certain script. And we also believe that everyone is allowed their own choice.

-Mereel-
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Avatar Aang
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 6:07 am

well guys could we stop this scripting conversation please. Its getting kinda boaring
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 6:12 am

mereel is completely right.
but let me put the script/cheat/advantage thing into the right light: by what you say scripters hide between the terminology. they use a script to get an advantage, which is cheating.
just like runners train in high places because of the influence it has on the blood. its cheating of course. but as it remains within the possibility the human body gives you, its ok enough to be legal.
now come and draw the line in jk2. i say the line is like you said: between mouse kick and script kick. the mouse kick is of course easier than the space kick, but it remains the ability from a human player. but compared to the default, its a cheat. and if you so want every namechange script is a cheat.
and kick script users hide behind that teminology by drawing NO line. if name script is no cheat, ks is no cheat. but the line is within the human abilities.
(and wehr, dont come and say: it were humans that made the ks, it would be human abilties. but you wont ever say a human can carry a big rock, though a crane can do it.)

and about the thing with kernow
its his personal choice if he wants to fight someone who uses a ks against him or not. if he doesnt want to learn how to fight them it was his own choice as well. that is what we provide.


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mereel
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 6:16 am

Xasomur wrote:
and about the thing with kernow
its his personal choice if he wants to fight someone who uses a ks against him or not. if he doesnt want to learn how to fight them it was his own choice as well. that is what we provide.


I am not saying he has to fight him, I am just saying that his reasons were to me demeaning and unfair. maxY was having fun! D:
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 7:20 am

Apart from the bit on me I completely agree with Mereel.

But Mereel ON the point with me - You completely mis-understood what I meant in my talk with maxy, I wasn't attacking his use of a KS - I take it you were the padawan that started insulting my views suddenly after I asked Maxy if he had a KS?

Kernow - Maxy do you use a ks?
Padawan - What problem is it or not if he does Kernow? You saying he isn't allowed to ks here? Kernow he has the freedom to use his scripts - etc etc etc

I just asked a simple question and you jumped in. I was fighting him - Just because I said I don't like fighting people who have unfair advantages over me doesn't mean I won't fight them - It just means sometimes it annoys me.

Also: I said we have rules which don't allow LAMING with ks on our server Smile He lamed me you see.

So I am not hypocritical.

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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 8:52 am

As I said, I wasn't trying to start an argument, just stating what I saw. And I did say I kinda just "jumped" in, so I had no idea what set it off. xDD
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 9:19 am

rofl that's getting worst to worst.
KernowPilgrim wrote:
don't allow LAMING with ks on our server
-_o ?! Sorry ?
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 9:20 am

actually its getting better. we just hit ajus wounded spot ^^

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wehr



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PostSubject: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 11:23 am

Mereel,

I listened to what you said and I took some time to read thru some other posts by Xaso. You are right in what you said. He is not just overbearing with me. I see it in many of his posts with many SOL members. I just find his personality/mannerisms to be unappealing and not conducive towards cordial relations between varying factions in jk2. He had attacked me before when I made a post and jumped on me accusing me of medaling in SOL affairs. I was shocked, and taken aback, then but didn't say anything as Nick jumped in and said something to Xaso.

Going thru the old posts it was evident that many SOL are aware of scripting issues within SOL. Just not the severity of it. So I ask why Xaso puts SOL on a pedestal and berates me when SOL is not clean of scripts. Hypocritical I believe. Yes, indeed it is.

@Kernow, I like you very much. I just hope you keep an open mind as you progress. It is not a perfect world.

@ rest of SOL, if I have offended other SOL it was not my intent. I apologize to you for some of the above behavior on my part. I just do not like Xaso, bottom line.

w
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Last edited by wehr on Tue 07 Sep 2010, 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 12:05 pm

Ajunta Pall wrote:
wehr wrote:
Truth be it told, if you think scripts are unclean then ATS is the more virtuous clan, from the non-scripting point of view.
lol, made me laugh much, even if it is ironic, it sounds so real lol.


SoL will never be perfect, but the reason I find it more virtuous than ATS is because we openly admit that and want to try to correct it as reasonably as we can. We search for a balance between enforcing fair play for our members and avoiding a witch hunt. Most of us are not experts at detecting scripts, and so the threshold for suggesting a member scripts is rather high. It's a defense mechanism to not completely destroy group cohesion. Xaso holds our clan dear to his heart not because he thinks we are more script-free than ATS, but because he thinks we go about dealing with the 'problem' more fairly. And to both of us, this is much more important.
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 12:14 pm

My additional point to this topic is that I am sorry if I have offended anyone with what I have said -

Aju what I meant to say was - When things like a KS is used to lame others in the server, that's when I point out that the person is using these things for ill-bent causes. I just want to clarify that I have no problem with non-SoL using SoL-considered-cheats, it is not against the rules just to use them in fights.

I realise I say things which seem almost like Outcast, I really don't want to be so harsh sounding or so like a bit ch. I am sorry. I just morally don't like it when people break the laming rules AND do it with a cheat.....

Anyway Aju by no means am I setting the rules here. I mean what am I at the moment in the clan? Nothing - Just an ex-admin and forum admin. I think because you are council member now you can propose new rules that perhaps will revolutionize the clan for the better. Hopefully creating peace with IDBS etc....

Wehr - I never want to insult you, nor to challenge your moral beleifs. Just I argue to gain an insight - I will read these posts again through and through. It's good to gain outer-perspectives and not to live in my own bubble Smile

I don't think I am right all the time, and certainly we aren't the Gods here in this clan or some crazy shit like that, in fact there is much I need to improve on. Aju, Grimmjow, Mereel and Wehr has taught me a great deal recently - How to respect others and not act like such a lemon (which I always in-advertantly do xD).....Players like IDBS react to the SoL rules and that is where we need to be more respectful.....friendship CAN be accomplished. We have Aju and Grimm as our middle men Razz

~K.P


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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 12:31 pm

So why don't you setup duelers mod and have a tournament in it? Bring out the pikers. See how cohesive SOL is then. Some people at the top would fall like rocks. Prove me wrong Nick. Xaso doesn't script can you say the same, prove it. Can Hektor? I know the answer. Now prove yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 12:33 pm

I LIKE TURTLES......phew.....

I thought Nick had deleted this! phew.......he just moved it

What is duelers mod?

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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 1:15 pm

Yea and the thing about hitler leave in alone lolzz im slow to getting to these things
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 3:13 pm

Never heard of duelers mod. I assume that it does something to detect scripts and that you are suggesting Hektor and I may script, and if we used duelers mod our apparent skill would decrease. Assuming that it doesn't change gameplay mechanics (because I would be pretty pissed off if I started losing in something that totally changes damages, etc., and then people accused me of scripting), I'd be happy to load up that mod simply for the purpose of proving I don't script, if that is indeed what you are suggesting.
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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 3:46 pm



Do a tournament in this mod. Announce times/lineups on forums so we can all watch, laff, etc..... It has to be installed server and client side. I gotta get some popcorn for this.


http://jediknight3.filefront.com/file/Duelers_Mod_14;20036
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 4:00 pm

From what I see this does not show whether or not someone is scripting, it just makes everyone "script."

Dueler's Mod 1.4 Documentation wrote:
From version 1.0: ...
one-click kicking

While I can see how this would level the playing field once everyone got used to scripting, it's not the same thing as a tournament without scripting. The point of not scripting is that you get good at PK legit, enough so that you are better than other legit PKers. If everyone is scripting, you can have pretty shitty PK technique and still get by. It's not an even representation of skill, it's just flattening out the skill curve for that aspect of gameplay. I've practiced PK a lot, and I don't like the idea of being compared to other people in FF when people who are worse than I am at PK are suddenly just as good or close to as good as I am.
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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 4:26 pm

I'm telling you scripters will not be able to script in this mod. This is what all SOL is about, is it not? I sense fear in you my friend. I did not push things this far. You wanted to see who has knowlegde of the game. Now stop talking and either put up or, you know the rest. I've been playing this game a long time and I know scripters/scripts when I see them.

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PS- Xaso you will learn before this is over. Believe me you will. There is only one way for people to dig their way outta this. They must prove their skill. All those scripting against you better fear this mod.

PPS- The feature you mention does not have to be turned on in the cfg. I'm sure you can handle that Nick. When I played this mod that feature was never on.


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PostSubject: Re: Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.   Tue 07 Sep 2010, 8:01 pm

Tiger wrote:
well guys could we stop this scripting conversation please. Its getting kinda boaring
Indeed. this is not a topic about scripting, if you want to make one just make one, thsi is to do with Tiger not scripting :l
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