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 outcast's final mod

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Abrum



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PostSubject: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 2:12 pm

Editors Note: Here is a link to a video of what Abrum had done to Outcast's ATS server, taken by Blackwolf: http://www.xfire.com/video/1edfe4/

HURRY UP AND GET ON HIS SERVER! THIS MOD IS FOR DEMOCRACY! EQUALITY! I have uploaded it!
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 2:46 pm

The words you put are true, but don't you think that might be overstepping a respect boundary? I like the enthusiasm but this can only cause problems I think. Neutral
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Abrum



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 3:41 pm

I took it too far, just too far... I overstepped. I meant what I put on there though... It's all over I think, they wont change.
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Grimlore



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 4:11 pm

don't mean to ask abrum,but what does it exactly do?
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 5:15 pm

Ok well i want to do a public message about this. It is only fair to everyone.

What did Abrum do? Ok he basically put a couple x-wings in the temple and many kangaroos around triggering motd's like: "Welcome to ATS Democracy, the other ATS are this. Outcast isn't, he calls anyone opposition rats and refuses to listen etc etc.." you get the idea.

For 3 weeks now we have been solidly working, trying to re-construct a clan and at the time trying to compete with bitter rivals who see us as both threats and fakes to their ATS name. Now Abrum if we all remember was quite neutral a couple of weeks ago, what made him change his mind? Well probably how he saw Outcast was using him and probably bying his talents by giving FTP, my opinion is Outcast just wanted another moph and he thought he had got one.

I shared all info i got with Abrum apart from stuff certain people have told me to keep secret (and i've acutually forgotten if any of you have told me confidential stuff...thats why im so good at secrets...i forget them xD), i have infinite logs proving Abrum never meant any harm to Outcast. I realised that slowly throughout the weeks he became more and more tempted to push the FTP red button that wld launch a nuke on Outcast's server. It was probably Abrum's and my patience and deidication for peace and unity that prevented us from just blowing their server to bits.

Although I didn't do the FTP stuff personally i am puttin myself forward as directly responsible for this, why? I only get a guilty feeling when i've something to feel guilty for. Now i didn't feel guilty towards Max and Out because all they did throughout the whole show was "jajajaja" insulting us in spanish. I feel bad because of the people who saw us as a beacon of fairplay, and then suddenly connected to find us Loling at server chaos.

What did i do wrong? I persuaded Abrum (NOT TO DESTROY) but to use FTP in order to gain a political foothold, i should never have used him like this.....i am beating myself for it at the moment. In levels of maturity on how we tried to talk to Max throughout this I think it ranks Abrum in first then Ajunta and Myself. Abrum was being polite but challenging. I was shouting at Max giving him all our attitudes in after 3 weeks of failing this...and Ajunta had just cracked at Herny's constant insults and brought up 'horny' which i admit i found funny but it wasn't necessary. As well as shouting the facts uncontrollably I lamed Ulrich once after he spam kicked me and told Herny to 'shut up' and rant at him after he called me a kid. I also encouraged Abrum to give some guns which didn't help.

Why did i do this? I never lagged, I never insulted behind their backs, I never spread hate and lies about their server and forum (In fact i encouraged people to visit both ATS's and assertain which was for them), and apart from that one conversation with Mereel 4/5 weeks ago (where we both shouted at Max during Outcast's absence) and today i've always given Max respect, patience, explanation and dedication to changing his mind. What have they done? Well Herny unnecassarily lagged us 7 times after Mereel's one lag, Max has been calling Mereel and I "dickheads" etc.... behind our backs after learning that I gave Abrum logs showing Max/Outcast declaring their total and undisputed ownership of the clan. Their only replies to our commited and argumentative posts are "STEEAALLLERRSS" and "Fake nabs", they spread these maglomanaic opinions to new players and condemed anyone who has conversed with us or talked to us to get our side etc......
Kyle allegedly abused Wolf (though this is obscure and i don't really see the point of the video), Herny banned Hek, Danek and Mereel after they refused to remove their tags and tried to talk sense. Max always refers to us as "Fod like kids" and "traitor nabs" and never has returned the favour to me of the respect i gave him.

The main reason for today that after 3 weeks of passive and patient attempts to get Max and Outcast to listen to us we thought (wrongfully) that this might get Max to listen to us. Max did actually for a second seem to listen, but the presence of Boss, Herny, Aju, Myself, and many other unbanned people didn't help.
We tried to intellectually discuss with them on their forums, bringing up arguments and fair discussion (NOT spam), all we got was negative karma, insults and eventually (after one recruit said we had a fair point) Herny banned the three main debatists; Xaso, Aju and Myself.
We hoped that in removing Abrum's mods (streets, ffa_bespin, GC and Topside) would lose some popularity on their server and get them to bargain for them back, and bit more aggresive and blackmailing approach I know but almost worked hadn't it been for the laggin wars which brought up more bad blood.
Abrum had conversations with Max and Out, but all they did was just warn him not to engage with us and said things like "I see you are growing a tail....beware" (tail as in rat). They never listened to Abrum's endless patience and determination to push through the Outcast ego. Fury and fustration was understandably building up in me and Abrum.
Eventually Abrum and my own patience was wearing thin.....we simply got desperate. Hoping that bringing our mottos and our opinions to their server wld cause a reaction enabling us to all converse. Another reason was that Abrum sensed that Outcast was going to remove his FTP after he learnt that Abrum was arguing for us, i said 'while you have FTP you might as well enjoy it.. :/' - omg i hate myself.


Main people this apology is directed at is Nick, Abrum, Argentino and Gich. I apologise for this lads.....any punishment you want to give me then go for it........i probably deserve it.

I'm not pulling the heartstring trick here i am genuinly sorry for this. I never wanted to just rampage but in the heat of the moment i did, it was Max and Outcast's inability to listen to anyone but themselves and my own impatience that caused this. I am sorry.

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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 6:54 pm

We all make mistakes, and this was one such mistake. We can't hope to convince the JK2 community of our values if we get involved in battles of disrespect like this. I'm glad that you both have denounced what happened, and I think we need to put things like this behind us. We need to focus on ourselves and our future. We've seen that there is nothing we can do to earn the respect of many in Outcast's ATS, and it's clear that methods like this are doomed to backfire. Now we must instead focus on building our own clan rather than change the ways of the others.

We must be respectful with the other ATS. If they claim to have the same values we do, then there's no reason we can't be friends with them. We just need to stop going to them, and instead build our own positive reputation. Let them insult us, we must not insult them back. Let them lame us, we must not lame them back. Let them ban us, we must not mindlessly ban them in return. There is little to be lost in not retaliating, but much to lose by getting involved in fights like these. Mistakes like this are bound to happen along the way, but each one is a stumbling block to our own progress. I think we need to resolve to put this constant rivalry behind us, for the good of everyone involved.

Again, we all make mistakes. We cannot undo them. The important thing after you've made a mistake is to correct it, and Abrum and Kernow show sincerity in this regard. More than anything I see this is an opportunity to seriously resolve to improve ourselves, and I'm sure we all understand and forgive them.
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Grimlore



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 8:44 pm

@ nick everybody else- i mean this ats had declared independence from Outcast which would mean ATS is also a symbol of Freedom from crappy admins and also like a Vault that shelters you from the harsh elements of The Capital Wasteland of Fallout 3 ATS keeps you in the Light Side of jk2 Smile
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 11:43 pm

Eeer kernow, just one thing :

When i was on the server ( i was logged before you all ), i was already arguing with max, but he ran to the training room and took ulrich to pm him.

And i never stopped to argue ( provoking herny times to times for a little fight ), and each time i heard something unbearable, i shoted a sentence showing well was it or is not ATS.
But kernow, i didn't crack to nothing, i just wanted to fight him ( each time i tried i got amsleep and amsilence ).

And you made no mistake, they fully deserver this, because of their behavior.

They think they can fight us by banning us everwhere when we open our mouth, then abrum use admin too, but for free speak, not for banning max from the server.

So it was not a mistake, and it was fair answer. ( the lag trashs after weren't needed )
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 11:51 pm

It's their server though, Ajunta. We have no right to deface it. We are well within our right to protest their disrespect yes, but this was going too far, as Abrum said.
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Sun 17 Jan 2010, 11:57 pm

And we are members of a clan, and neiter outcast nore maximus had the rights to master us lik e shits, and quite us like dogs you quite in the street. ( you isn't for you but for a general use )

THey didn't respect any of us, even you, the wisest here blaming every offensive word you have been insulted, what to do with this ? Sorry, but i don't blame active actions. It was justified this time, and fully fair ( and no damage to server done, outcast just has to delete the mod from the ftp )
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 12:11 am

I know they don't respect us, but that doesn't mean we can't be respectful. We don't need to respect them, but we can still be respectful, and I think we need to if we want to live up to our values. I don't blame Kernow or Abrum for what they did; they did what they felt was right at the time. But in looking back on it, I think it's fair to say that it seems to contradict our morals of being respectful. Regardless of whether they deserved it or not, things like this will have no positive impact; they lead only to more problems. That's why I think it was a mistake, and I think Abrum and Kernow recognize this as well.
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tweetie



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 12:16 am

we should be more respectfull for other ATS with outcast etc. becuse if we do that MAYBE they will be respectfull to us u never know what can happen in the REAL WORLD we should work most on that sorry if i m rong
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Grimlore



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 12:38 am

if that happens and Out comes in with his boys i got a secret weapon for him
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tweetie



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 12:57 am

Ajunta if they are insulting us [OUTCAST] and others and if we insult back then we are just so bad as they are it wont chanche something to insult somebody i mean.
they say bad words to us, but if we say back then we are bad verry bad.
sorry for multi post
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Grimlore



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 1:16 am

you didn't double post tweetie it's no problem >_>
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Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 1:17 am

But u did grim -_-
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 2:01 am

Tweetie, my insults arn't free, they are justified, and just the result of an argue.
They are meaning full about them, not just to make them angry.
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Hora
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 4:03 am

:/
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purple_kush



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 8:18 am

just a thought, if its such a problem, why not change your clan tags from ats to something else? i know i'm not in ats, but theres my 2 cents Smile
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 8:22 am

lol kush^^
its a deeper issue than a name...

two things mainly:
1. we changing the name would somehow seem like we are actually a new clan, and kind of rebels, like they tell we were, it would give those conservatives right, and seem us as losers

2. ats is the clan we want to save and represent. the values why we joined it and all those surroundings. only outcast wouldnt fit in this ats as a tyranic leader. so fundamentally we see usself as ats, so there is absolutley no reason for us to change our name

only because they nag? ^^ lol

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Grimlore



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Mon 18 Jan 2010, 10:49 am

@phoenix dude a double post only happens if you post again after posting once
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purple_kush



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Thu 21 Jan 2010, 10:08 am

ah, i c.. Smile
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BlackKnight
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Thu 21 Jan 2010, 12:06 pm

Why do we dont abandon ATS tag an name??..
Thats easy..loyalty..real loyalty..to the values of the clan..loyaty to the members the oens that are doing something, maximus and outcast just want to get all the job we have done..maybe they helped to found the clan but the clan was never theirs...is more clan of gich and others than from Outcast cause all of them showed mazimus and outcast what they now know.

We wont abandon this name..cause we fought back to revive this clan its not fair they jsut come after doing anything..and say "THIS IS OURS NOW GET THE FUCK OFF AND OBBEY ME CAUSE IM OLDER IN THIS CLAN THAN U!!"
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TheGraanulaarian
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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Thu 21 Jan 2010, 12:24 pm

thats right dude Smile so true
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Abrum



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PostSubject: Re: outcast's final mod   Thu 21 Jan 2010, 1:04 pm

Why don't you show loyalty once more to what what good in that clan, which was under their leadership at the time. Why don't you talk to them as a friend, forget anything anyone has said to you, I found it enlightening to talk to Max, even on/after that night. Max gives out insults to those who listen to their friends just because they are your friends. There must be reasoning seen by the people for the people, he doesn't just want to order you around. He challenges you to think for yourself, you use his challenge (being called kid) as a reason to desert him. Outcast made some mistakes, to me Max admits to making mistakes himself, perhaps there is more the meets the grouped eye.

My 2 cents, humbly,
-Abrum

P.S. I believe much in what I have just said.
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