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 Admin abuse section

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masterboss



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PostSubject: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 2:18 pm

Any news regarding this thing?
Last time nick said he will bring it to SOL council...
No news since then , only more admin abuse
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 2:24 pm

more admin abuse?
lol Wink

but as far for the news: we keep it like it is: ppl who think they got abused make a topic and we'll hear both sides of the story: the one maybe abused and the one maybe abusing. and there will be decisions taken for each case on its own.
um... do you want more info? did i forgot something?

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Lucifer
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 3:08 pm

so that counts as boss crashing our server, cause he wants to rage?
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masterboss



Posts : 119

PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 3:16 pm

I didnt crash any server.
Not recently anyway.
If i want to cras I can.
Now , getting back to topic , Xaso , I see your admins abuse several times , and yet you guys dont take action against them.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 3:30 pm

we dont take actions on them because it would be unfair. we take actions on lamers after they have molested other ppl for a long time and in an extend that was detrementary for the whole atmosphere. if we would take action son the admins because they abused one person for lets say 5 times (idk if that happens) it is still nothing in relation to how many ppl a lamer have to lame, how many times he had to be warned and so on.
Another point is: no admin ever abused for the sake of abusing. every usage of admin had its reason, we admit: sometimes the commands used were overkill. but in the end he had a reason always. just like you boss: sneaking into the forum account of admins and using their access to gain admin on the server is overkill. and still: you aint banned, you didnt got punished even.
another point: no admin ever abused with ignorance towards what other admins and people from inside and outside the clan told him to do. in the end, if there was a feud between several people, between an admin and a lamer, and the admin tended to overreact on that special person, then this certain admin was always cooperative enough to let other admins handle that lamer. and we had never something like a ban war in sol: we never had it, that some admin kept banning a certain ip of someone he didnt like. Never happened. if someone banned someone, and he got unbanned by another one, then there will be a discussion about it, but unless there is another acute reason, there wont be banned someone again.
And in the end, the admins are elected. they're only here for six months. so if the people of sol think that hes doing a bad job, he wont get elected again. this is the only fair punishment towards admins.


Those kinds of thoughts let us come to the decision: punishments towards "abusive" admins are unnecessary and over all unfair. we cant punish admins as long as we're so lax towards lamers (something which lamers wont ever admit i guess, but you have to admit: thats true. i can count on one hand those people who were banned for laming only) so the relation would be totally out of place --> no punishment for server admins

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Dark Misery



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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 4:07 pm

Xasomur wrote:
we dont take actions on them because it would be unfair. we take actions on lamers after they have molested other ppl for a long time and in an extend that was detrementary for the whole atmosphere. if we would take action son the admins because they abused one person for lets say 5 times (idk if that happens) it is still nothing in relation to how many ppl a lamer have to lame, how many times he had to be warned and so on.
Another point is: no admin ever abused for the sake of abusing. every usage of admin had its reason, we admit: sometimes the commands used were overkill. but in the end he had a reason always. just like you boss: sneaking into the forum account of admins and using their access to gain admin on the server is overkill. and still: you aint banned, you didnt got punished even.
another point: no admin ever abused with ignorance towards what other admins and people from inside and outside the clan told him to do. in the end, if there was a feud between several people, between an admin and a lamer, and the admin tended to overreact on that special person, then this certain admin was always cooperative enough to let other admins handle that lamer. and we had never something like a ban war in sol: we never had it, that some admin kept banning a certain ip of someone he didnt like. Never happened. if someone banned someone, and he got unbanned by another one, then there will be a discussion about it, but unless there is another acute reason, there wont be banned someone again.
And in the end, the admins are elected. they're only here for six months. so if the people of sol think that hes doing a bad job, he wont get elected again. this is the only fair punishment towards admins.


Those kinds of thoughts let us come to the decision: punishments towards "abusive" admins are unnecessary and over all unfair. we cant punish admins as long as we're so lax towards lamers (something which lamers wont ever admit i guess, but you have to admit: thats true. i can count on one hand those people who were banned for laming only) so the relation would be totally out of place --> no punishment for server admins

Basically what you're saying if Barrack Obama rapes and abuses someone the best punishment he can be given is the probability of not getting elected next time. Lol
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KiraOrLight
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 4:22 pm

God, that's such a false equivalency it makes me want to shed tears. Rape has no reasons and is far worse in comparison to the act of simply overusing admin commands. Let me remind you of a few things: by coming on our server, you agree to be abused, and you can appeal abuse and ban. Don't think that we won't ban a proven severe abuser, because I for one will severely push for it. But that has to be handled case by case. Chaos theory dictates that the more variables we add, the less reliable predictions are. So, there can easily be cases where circumstances differ.
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Dark Misery



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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 4:27 pm

admin abuse is the worse it can get in jk2, rape isn't the worse it can get in life. So.. ya.

Ok let me make a better comparison: A foreign comes to the USA agreeing to there laws, however he constantly shoplifts, then has a bad rep. Barrack Obama comes and rapes him, and people know this. Nothing happens except the shoplifter gets banished from the USA. Same thing here (except laming is playing the game, shoplifting not really..).
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Leonardo
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 4:29 pm

Nightmare_I wrote:
Basically what you're saying if Barrack Obama rapes and abuses someone the best punishment he can be given is the probability of not getting elected next time. Lol

It didnt stop Bill Clinton lolz...
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 4:50 pm

your comparison still fails

your guy is shoplifting, and he gets into prison for it. now is the punishment too hard or not? is it justified? maybe sometimes the judge or the jury is mean, because they dislike the robber, maybe he is black, maybe he is an asshole... whatever it is: the jury or the judge may overreact and gets him into prison, though prison is too harsh.

if it was a real trial laffy, you wouldnt be able to spam them with complains, they would never even care. you are lucky laffy, we are here, we care, but some of your claims need to be dispelled.

in sol this happens: if a punishment is too hard, its taken off immediatly by other judges. and it never happened that the judges get into a punishment war. what i already explained. and no judge giving a too harsh punishment to someone more than twice, because at some point he learns to let that shoplifter be handled by other judges.

i wouldnt call that abuse Wink
abuse is when you come to the server, maybe lame, maybe not, and then an admin comes, and repeatly amexplodes you and uses other commands make his fun of you and get his joy from that. they dont abuse they're powers. they're not corruptive, like putting money into their own pocket, for their own joy. they only do their work. sometimes they may be over-enthusiastic, but they're never corruptive.
and we wont punish over-enthusiasm as long as the willing breaking of our rules is handled so lax.

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Dark Misery



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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Tue 08 Mar 2011, 5:24 pm

U missed the point of the example and removed Barrack Obama. You're saying that rape is better then shoplifting? Well then I feel sorry for you lol.

abuse is when you come to the server, maybe lame, maybe not, and then an admin comes, and repeatly amexplodes you and uses other commands make his fun of you and get his joy from that. they dont abuse they're powers. they're not corruptive, like putting money into their own pocket, for their own joy. ~AGREED~ This happened lots of times with barley any reasons and such. Only the blind miss this..

And btw, judge may be mean but the jury don't. Who decided here? SOL Council (composed of 3 people who and only who decide mainly. Who decide in courts? Judge who they probably never met and is a professional (ehem pro?). and the jury, random people, non-SOLiens.=]

Lets replace you three with the best pros in the game who played a long time too. And lets get 9 random people in the game (old players and new but with experience, enough to call them a citizen of jk2). And I guarantee you, the trial will go my way. GG
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 2:10 am

lol laaf... you fail.

i told you: the barack obama comparison doesnt work. but let me try to use it, so that you can understand: if barack obama came to rape you, then it would be like nickdeclaw came on the server and grips you with emp, amgets you into walls, explodes you, freezes you and kills you then, or uses freeze to kill you with elevators. but all those never happens

and it never happens that someone uses his admin to get joy for himself by using the admin on someone. never happens. amexplode is only for hc's and they shouldnt use it on lamers. sebbat used it once, but with warning. dc admins only have sleep, freeze, and teleports and some bancommands, like banning force or banning toggle. but you wont see someone abusing those...

our council has 7 people. and it has decided on 4 bans for lamers. Wink within all that time.
laffy, youre just biased

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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 7:05 am

Ajunta Pall wrote:
As clearly said kernow, people can post in either General conversation or The clan section to post an unban request. And my point is that making a specific area for that would enforce the idea of abuse, cuz we make ourself an area for that, meaning that we indeed abuse.
And the for the admins punishment : it would break all the trust which makes this clan live. We elect our admins because we trust them, we give them powers cuz we trust them. If we start punishing them, it means we break this SoL spirit. Those admins are the pillar of the server, if they are admins, it means that they have the ability to be, and we shouldn't even think about having any punishement for any of them.

[...]

So i don't think that we should get any procedures against admins. If we have 6 months elections periods, it's not for nothing. The only secure way to have good admins is the trust, if they break it, all what they get is that they don't get admin next term. It's so easy, and it works quite good.

Some peope, mainly banned ones, asked for this, but it touches deeply the sol spirit, and we can't let them access sol that deeply. The ban time concerns them direclty, so ok if they have a speak about it, but that topic, is SOL'S voice, it's our heart, and they don't have any right to touch it.

laaf wrote:
except laming is playing the game
We don't care what you think is laming, it's forbad in our server.
as you like comparaisons : fly a kite is forbidden in us before 18, while it's life too.

So deal with that.
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wehr



Posts : 708

PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 9:03 am

damn funny conversation. only prob is this is same as converstions i heard 6 yrs ago in jk2. only thing different is idea of abuse section in forum. why don't you guys stay on that topic and get off old admin abuse/laming thing. heard it millions of times by now.


w
e
h
r
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Proballboy



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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 9:21 am

<---------------------haz lawled so hard that laff cant get it through his head that he is wrong.
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Dark Misery



Posts : 593

PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 10:42 am

Xasomur wrote:
lol laaf... you fail.

i told you: the barack obama comparison doesnt work. but let me try to use it, so that you can understand: if barack obama came to rape you, then it would be like nickdeclaw came on the server and grips you with emp, amgets you into walls, explodes you, freezes you and kills you then, or uses freeze to kill you with elevators. but all those never happens

and it never happens that someone uses his admin to get joy for himself by using the admin on someone. never happens. amexplode is only for hc's and they shouldnt use it on lamers. sebbat used it once, but with warning. dc admins only have sleep, freeze, and teleports and some bancommands, like banning force or banning toggle. but you wont see someone abusing those...

our council has 7 people. and it has decided on 4 bans for lamers. Wink within all that time.
laffy, youre just biased

Xaso just because someone doesn't use the above abuse combo doesn't mean that it's abuse. Doing the above is nearly as bad as Mute + Stun Baton + Ban. There is no difference what type of abuse it is (you're saying like amexplode is worse then getting stun baton and let everyone around you kill you). I find amexplode and elevator tele almost near as bad mute + stun baton. And the barack case works just well, you just dismissed it without logic of dismissing it therefor you know it worked as a great comparison but tried to dismiss it because of fear of being a great comparison.

And it happens a lot that admin gets joy for himself because of abuse. I seen it countless of times on SOL. Many people have seen it countless of times in SOL. That's why this is a big deal here you poor fool. I barley seen you on the server for the last three months. So you have no say on about admin abuse in the last 3 months.

-Yes wehr you're right this conversation was here since the beginning of the game. These SOL proz think they thought of it and are the evolution, when in fact its the degradation of the game.

-Probal: Nightmare > Proballboy11x10 (In skillz and logic and intellect)
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masterboss



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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 1:45 pm

The thing is , it seems , that sol refuse to punish the admins that abuse.
And last time we were here , Nick said he's gonna take this to the council and make a poll.
Like last time ... and everyone can vote if abusive admins should be punished.
Please show me you're more than a bunch of kids abusing admin and protecting each other.
Because such kids need a slap from time to time
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 3:06 pm

the proposal was denied by all council members.

laffy, i denied the barack rapist, because barack doesnt rape, he sends to jail. i tried to explain you that rape would be something else than ban. something like stun baton and pusing you through hangar.
but as i told you, from my experience i say that no admin uses admin that way. he does what he needs to do to keep the shoplifter from shoplifting. he is maybe taking him away his tools to break into the shop... which maybe would be banning toggle or banning force. something which doesnt happen with warning before, or with discussion after. if you dont want to listen, nor talk, then you will be banned, because how else can we cooperate? and that would be the jail again.

but it doesnt happen from my experience, that an admin comes, sees you shoplifting, and he is giving you stun baton and pushes you through temple and hunts you down and kills you. doesnt happen. Wink
so either barack takes your weapon, or, if that doesnt help, he sends you to jail. rape doesnt happen.

i agree, rape would be abuse. but that doesnt happen.
ok, maybe sometimes the weapon has not to be taken, or it happens too fast or whatever, but it never happened because of the joy of the admin, it happened for a reason. same for the jail.

laaf... dont put it like this would happen often. it happens to some few ppl. unfortunately to those ppl who come here, spamming forums with whine and threats. which makes it seem as it would happen to many ppl. but in fact, it doesnt. it happen to just a bit more than 5 people ever.

the other ppl lagged the server, and lagging the server --> jail
since the poll we had that jail punishment isnt permanent even. so you cant demand more there.

back to the punishment then for admins. on the incidence, someone would really rape someone, which doesnt happen, we would probably punish that. but there is no need to think bout that, because that doesnt happen.
what does happen is over enthusiams as i told you. and as long as you dont get slapped through temple or summoned into lift over and over again, you dont have any point. over enthusiasm wont get punished, because the effects of that get always fixed and the admin learns from it, and even if he doesnt, he wont get re-elected then. but he isnt harassing players. in opposite to some of you guys Wink

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KiraOrLight
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 3:13 pm

Boss, there was discussion. And we decided that having a general rule for admin abusers would lower morale. So, we decided to handle it case by case. If you have proof that let's say I had HC (xD) and I slapped you, silenced you, exploded you, and let Karina with term rape you while you were silenced and hunted. Then, I would be punished. See?
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Leonardo
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 6:01 pm

Silly Kira......its probably a good idea to ask the person before you amexplode them Very Happy

Manners are important.
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: Admin abuse section   Wed 09 Mar 2011, 9:40 pm

boss, it's normal that you can have a voice about how long you get banned, but it's not your probem what we do with our admins, whatever said nick. WE decide what happens about OUR members.
so, feck off. If you are not happy, hack more, but we won't change that anyway.
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