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 Admins Look into This Please

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Nibler



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PostSubject: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 7:52 am

About roughly an hour ago, with 17 players on SoL Europe, certain SoL members decided that they wanted to hold some tourny. Now, they immediately went from ffa_bespin to yavin without the consent of those 17 players. Within about 5 minutes they had gone down to 12 players. About 5 minutes later they decided they wanted to go to Zoned because people were not "cooperating" with their tourny. This made the player base go down to 8. After about 15 minutes there, they decided that they were going to go to SoL US to have a tourny leaving 0 players on the Europe server. In a matter of 20 minutes these members killed a very popular server these days. This is extremely upsetting to me and I know it was for other players as well. With people playing more rarely now finding 17 on a server is extremely lucky or rare. I hope a solution can be found with this problem.

-Nibler
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Axel
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 8:15 am

You were told clearly that we were only temporarily going to yavin for 10 minutes for the TT but when we got there no one would calm down for that 10 minutes so we had to go to zoned. Light and I tried to calm you lot down but you kept there were ffa in temple and hangar which are the biggest clear areas so we went to zoned. We only moved to US after so Vader and Gonza were comfortable when I finished my TT with Gonza.

If people had behaved we could of gone back to bespin within 10-15 minutes.
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Lucifer
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 8:27 am

dont we have 2 servers for this?
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Battledroidlover
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 8:30 am

If you could pay for another server for us to have tournaments on it would be greatly appreciated Wink
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Light
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:03 am

I agree with axel. Most people didn´t want to cooperate and I think that is our server too. By this I don´t mean that we can do everything we want, I am just saying that if we need the server to do something that includes our clan (like TT, Flame Tournaments, etc.) and people just did what they pleased and didn´t have consideration, then how are we suppose to have our tourny? Futhermore, the tournys of TT are not that long, and it was going to be a fast tourny. I don´t really want to generalize, maybe some people wanted to cooperate, but most people didn´t or didn´t even care. Admins may do something wrong sometimes, because we are not perfect, and I am sorry if you really feel bad about this, but I think there was a lack of respect, tolerance and understanding from most of the players to us (admins) in that situation. Is it that terrible to change the map for 10-15 minutes? From my point of view it isn´t that bad as to make a lot of drama of it. Maybe you feel "abuse" from our power to change the map. Well I think it could have been a better situation if we could have talk in a good way, but most players didn´t want to talk (in a good way) or didn´t even considere the option because the were too much self-centred and furious because of the map change. We are grown ups, I think that having a talk and consideration from both parts can solve this situation (maybe changing the map later could be a solution). But having that acttitude from most players won´t solve anything. I am sorry if it sounds rude, but I felt it like that

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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:05 am

a) Bespin is a very small map for 17 ppl. I think it was a good idea to change it to yavin_temple. A clan event is a good reason to do that. A clan's server is not there for clan members to be unable to do their clan stuff.

b) it was not smart to interrupt a tournament. I don't get it when players deem their own interests more important than the interests of the clan who owns the server. SoL does alot for non-members and were very cooperative. We tolerate scripting and we tolerate alot of laming. We tolerate alot of shit talk and rule breaches. But if there is a tourney going on and people are disturbing it, my toleration would end as well.

c) I admit, there would have been smarter solutions on yavin_temple: /amrcon exec lock_temple
Why wasn't that applied? A second map change in a short amount of time, when ppl show their negative answer on the first one, that is quite harsh. Especially when you changed over to US in the end. I think the actions actually were legit, but it was a harsh thing to do. You just get the answer for it. xP I am on your side, but many ppl won't be. So prepare for it. Wink

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Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:13 am

Nibler wrote:
About roughly an hour ago, with 17 players on SoL Europe, certain SoL members decided that they wanted to hold some tourny. Now, they immediately went from ffa_bespin to yavin without the consent of those 17 players. Within about 5 minutes they had gone down to 12 players. About 5 minutes later they decided they wanted to go to Zoned because people were not "cooperating" with their tourny. This made the player base go down to 8. After about 15 minutes there, they decided that they were going to go to SoL US to have a tourny leaving 0 players on the Europe server. In a matter of 20 minutes these members killed a very popular server these days. This is extremely upsetting to me and I know it was for other players as well. With people playing more rarely now finding 17 on a server is extremely lucky or rare. I hope a solution can be found with this problem.

-Nibler
I understand your frustrations mate, and not being present at the time I can't verify the situation fully. It is difficult when we have popular server, to strike a balance that gives fair right to member and non-members. You want to play freely on our server, which we entitle you to, but then we have clan agendas that we want to proceed with in the interest of our member, so the decisions we make or not easy. Sometime ultimately, one party feels hard done by.

I hope this occurence was a one off, as we expect usually expect these procedures to run smooth, i'm not sure of the actual SoL member involved, and I don't need to know, but usually when we host a tourney, we make it so that players who don't want to spectate can go elsewhere on the map for game playing and entertainment. It sounds as if the SoL personnel had trouble keeping the harmony while the tourney was being undertaking. Unfortunately for us it means that extra action has to be taken to order to allow the tourney to go ahead. Its a bit like having streakers at sports event.

Often outside players that won't co-operate need to be moved, warned, or even kicked. Its not what we want to do, but sometimes its the only option. In some situations a map change may even be required, in order to let the event happen with more peace.

I understand your feelings on this matter, and I apologise on behalf of SoL. But as our members collectively pay for the server, in most circumstances, they are rightly given priority. Unfortunatley our clan events take alot preparation, tourneys events can often end up being set up quite spontaneously, as its a really issue trying to organise times to do such events, as we are relying on serveral people all being online at the right place and time, and in practice it doesn't work well very often, which is why we usually just make the tourney there and then, when the necessary people happen to be present, because its just too difficult to schedule the event.

I understand your frustrations. We try not to make a habbit out of doing this, especially on a popular server such as SoL euro, we want to keep everybody happy, incuding non-members. It sounds as if you were minding your own business and just enjoying the game, so im sure you didn't welcome the inconvenience. There's really not many ways around this, we have to have our tournements, and when we do, somebody, usually non-members, end up feeling left out. It so hard to organise them so everybody is happy.

It sounds as if, on this occasion, there was more problems then there needed to be, we expect one or two hiccups, but players quitting due to displeasure, or several map changes happening before tournement can proceed, isn't really the kind of display SoL wants to be known for representing.

Sorry on this occasion, sorry for your inconvenience, undoubtable the people involved will post the actual details and reason here in due course. Lets hope things run smoother in future, we want to our server to remain popular, and for both SoL and non-SoL to enjoy it alike.


Last edited by Phoenix on Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:21 am; edited 1 time in total
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Vader
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:20 am

All I can say is that I didn't know that happened, since I got there when it was on yavin. Anyways, the only reason we went to the US server is that gonza had better ping, I didn't really care where. If we would've stayed I would've locked temple.

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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:27 am

Xasomur wrote:
c) I admit, there would have been smarter solutions on yavin_temple: /amrcon exec lock_temple
Why wasn't that applied? A second map change in a short amount of time, when ppl show their negative answer on the first one, that is quite harsh. Especially when you changed over to US in the end.
yeah I think you might be right, it may have been quite harsh. I forgot about lock_temple map, and I tried to lock the door of the temple myself and I failed. When we changed to US server was because of another tourny (vader vs gonza) and not because of the tourny we wanted to have in euro server (axel vs gonza).

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Vader
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:29 am

I think only HC can lock the temple, I'm not sure tho.

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Lucifer
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:34 am

again im confused about this situation, if we had a very active server, why didn't we go to the US server to begin with? when i checked the server logs, we had very few on the US server, and it could easily be managed by a admin if people do inside the temple, and let the euro server stay as it was.
Besides that Gonza would of had a -40 ping also on the US server would of made it much easier for him to fight that TT fight.

This is a Public server, people should be allowed to come on and enjoy the game. Not be forced to do what the admins please, unless we want to turn into the old ATS (i said old btw) This is a game, and having very active servers is rare nowadays. The admins should of let that euro server go, and went into the US server. I mean shouldn't we take advantage of having 2 servers, it gives us more options to host TT without being interrupted and having dramatic issues like this in the first place...
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Lucifer
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:36 am

Vader wrote:
I think only HC can lock the temple, I'm not sure tho.
if bot is on server, amstatus the bot, amget the bot and freeze it on that location. Even though training is probably not the greatest spot, it would of had no distractions from non-members.
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GONZA
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 10:20 am

I remember we were fighting with axel at yavin, there was a few people watching the fight in the higher ground of the temple, but i went afk for a minute, when i came back we were changing to zoned, i missed what happened before changing the map :/
I have the same ping in eu and us server, 310 or 298 if its low.
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Nibler



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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 10:44 am

Xaso, there was a vote 10 minutes prior to going to ffa_bespin on whether or not to go there. More people got on during the short amount of time we actually were on bespin. The members were very reluctant to go to bespin for personal reasons, not because of the amount of people that were present at the time. That and we were there for not even 10 minutes before it was changed back. I would have respected that reasoning from you, Xaso, but that was not the reasoning given.

I feel like everyone is missing my frustration in this situation. Why should I have to stand for killing a server for some silly TT that can at least wait until the server dies down? I have nothing against these rules but when I see a server go from 17 down to 0 in less than 20 minutes because of the actions of a few members then that needs to be addressed. Maybe these members should actually think of the reason why so few were willing to cooperate with them? Why should I put up with people with power wanting to do what they want over what 15 other people want? If you really want to do what you want on your servers, then fine. Because that's what I'm getting from all this. "You can have a say until we decide you don't." If that's how you want to run your server then don't pretend like the non-members have a say on which map the server goes or what gametype we do. Had there not been a lot of people on, I wouldn't of cared about all this. Do not forget that it is the non-members that help keep your servers active and keeping you from wasting money on those servers.

-Nibler
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 11:07 am

Any admin can lock the temple. Like Xaso said it's /amrcon exec lock_temple
With 17 people on it was fine and good to change to yavin_temple -- even if most of the players didn't want to -- to facilitate the tournament. That is a good compromise between the clan getting what it needs and the other players still getting most of what they want. But it was not fine to change to zoned. Yes it is our server, but there were options available that didn't involve switching to a map that many people might not have. Any time there are many people on, only maps that you know 90% or more of the active players have should be considered.

There were ways to have the tournament on yavin_temple. The temple could have been locked or it could have been done in training. It also could have been delayed a little while to a point where there were fewer people and the tournament was more feasible even without either of those options.

So, all that being said, I looked at the logs and there was a lot of pathetic complaining and insulting from people like jam!la and chaiR for no purpose but to attempt to irritate admins who were well within their rights to try to facilitate a clan tournament. Half of the responsibility for the depletion of the player population rests on the people who broke the most important rule (it's in capital letters): BE RESPECTFUL. There were multiple ways to avoid something like this and many of them include allowing the tournament to take place immediately.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 11:20 am

Nibler wrote:
Xaso, there was a vote 10 minutes prior to going to ffa_bespin on whether or not to go there. More people got on during the short amount of time we actually were on bespin. The members were very reluctant to go to bespin for personal reasons, not because of the amount of people that were present at the time. That and we were there for not even 10 minutes before it was changed back. I would have respected that reasoning from you, Xaso, but that was not the reasoning given.
I didn't know that. :S

And I don't try to say that admins should do whatever they want and pay no attention to other players. But I also wish those other players would show a little respect or gratitude to the clan hosting the most active servers...

And yes, I paid no attention to your frustration. This happens alot when you have to moderate between different parties with many people. I try to not pay attention to anyone's feelings if that happens. But in fact your right. They're also important and they are often more part of the problem than we like to put it. So I am sorry for the way this turned out. But maybe it is a relief for you, if I told you, that the server is that active quite often. One day it had 18 ppl, while Kernow was on the US server. I had to kick slayer who was afk in order to keep one slot free for Kernow. XP And the US server also gets 13-15 ppl regularly. This is good news and I hope it will stay like this Smile

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Lucifer
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 11:37 am

Thank u xaso and nick for clearing this up for me, i was confused for a while, but now i understood what happened.
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Nibler



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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 12:40 pm

Thank you to all for your helpful insight into the workings (and way of thinking) of SoL and its policies regarding this situation, especially to Nick and Xasomur and as well as the hasty responses. It does make me feel better, Xaso, to hear how popular the SoL server is. I also hope this is a one off thing and hope that the admins involved in this situation have grown by reading the alternate solutions presented by other members. Again, thank you.

-Nibler
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 1:55 pm

I said I'd be off this evening. F***ing effort this one. Also it did that REALLY ANNOYING thing where it deletes 75& into completion cos you accidently change pages. But I COPY AND SAVED to avoid the suicide. Mwahahahahaaha

First off ~ As it's been so long ~ NIB <3

I have to look at this from the perspective of what would've happened if we had only one server. I think this exact converstion and debate would've been the same and I might've been defending our right to run our server. However this luckily wouldn't have been an option, as another server would've been avaliable. Though I agree with Xaso and Nick it's might be worth checking how lock temple works.


Phoenix wrote:

I understand your feelings on this matter, and I apologise on behalf of SoL. But as our members collectively pay for the server, in most circumstances, they are rightly given priority. Unfortunatley our clan events take alot preparation, tourneys events can often end up being set up quite spontaneously, as its a really issue trying to organise times to do such events
...
We try not to make a habbit out of doing this, especially on a popular server such as SoL euro, we want to keep everybody happy, incuding non-members.
I agree Phoe, an equal emphasise on clan balance and awareness of server users. Whether we force the large company of duelists or as clan members we go to the other server, I think as Light points out we are all adults and should've talked about this.  

Nibs wrote:
If that's how you want to run your server then don't pretend like the non-members have a say on which map the server goes or what gametype we do. Had there not been a lot of people on, I wouldn't of cared about all this. Do not forget that it is the non-members that help keep your servers active and keeping you from wasting money on those servers.
Yes indeed. It is six of one and half a dozen of the other as well from Nicks inquiry into people who seemed to spiral things into on online argument during. I appreciate the fustration dude and this reinforces that it was a miscommunication. As you and Xaso have agree on xD

Sind wrote:
again im confused about this situation, if we had a very active server, why didn't we go to the US server to begin with? when i checked the server logs, we had very few on the US server, and it could easily be managed by a admin if people do inside the temple, and let the euro server stay as it was.
Besides that Gonza would of had a -40 ping also on the US server would of made it much easier for him to fight that TT fight.

This is a Public server, people should be allowed to come on and enjoy the game....This is a game, and having very active servers is rare nowadays. The admins should of let that euro server go, and went into the US server. I mean shouldn't we take advantage of having 2 servers, it gives us more options to host TT without being interrupted and having dramatic issues like this in the first place...
++ My ultimate feelings entirely. I didn't know if that would be addressed and so far it hasnt. I'm glad you covered all the wording so I could just nod. ^_^

To me I don't think this should turn into a debate of why the principle of doing this/not doing this, is wrong/right. I would hazard a guess that miscommunication in letting these duelists know and vice versa played a key part here, pretty common when you have 17 players on Bespin; too tight a bag that one.

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Axel
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 5:23 pm

The reason why this couldn't be done on SoL US was because I get 300 ping there and its unplayable.
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Battledroidlover
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Mon 07 Oct 2013, 9:06 pm

Battledroidlover wrote:
If you could pay for another server for us to have tournaments on it would be greatly appreciated Wink
It was a joke guys .... Rolling Eyes
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Igrom



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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Tue 08 Oct 2013, 2:55 am

All's been said already, I just want to highlight that past TTs were troubled with the inability to get members together. If SoL has a server, they ought to put it to use.

I can see where you're coming from, Nib, but SoL isn't the only available euro server; people could have shouted out 'we're going to ancients/flamestrikers/xxx' and joined en masse.

(of course, going ats_zoned_v2 wasn't too bright)
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Tue 08 Oct 2013, 6:56 am

Axel wrote:
The reason why this couldn't be done on SoL US was because I get 300 ping there and its unplayable.

You should've added - ''When you compare to the amazing ping I have on the Euro server''

You joined us mid 2010 Axel - How did you win all your previous tournaments if it's been unplayable? xD

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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Tue 08 Oct 2013, 9:44 am

Kernow Pilgrim wrote:
You joined us mid 2010 Axel - How did you win all your previous tournaments if it's been unplayable? xD [/color]
For some reason about a month ago my ping jumped from ~150 to ~300, I have no idea of the cause (btw I lost most of my tournaments, don't forget the 7 tournies for green!)
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Nibler



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PostSubject: Re: Admins Look into This Please   Tue 08 Oct 2013, 10:49 am

Igrom wrote:
All's been said already, I just want to highlight that past TTs were troubled with the inability to get members together. If SoL has a server, they ought to put it to use.

I can see where you're coming from, Nib, but SoL isn't the only available euro server; people could have shouted out 'we're going to ancients/flamestrikers/xxx' and joined en masse.

(of course, going ats_zoned_v2 wasn't too bright)
Why would I lead a mass to go to another server if I like SoL servers? Is that not what I want to avoid happening on any SoL server?
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