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 Samfp and Sanyo

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Samfp



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PostSubject: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 1:25 am

Forum Admin note: Your account name has been changed to: Samfp

So I've been told some stuff about the thread over at clan section, and heard what some people have had to say regarding me and Sanyo and 'laming' on SoL.

I understand that some of you get upset by our occasional laming, but I feel like this has been blown out of proportion with a 10 page discussion, and 1 year bans being discussed.

Let me firstly tell you a little about Sanyo.

He has been my friend on JK2 since day 1 and has helped me become the player I am. The reason some of you may feel that he unnecessarily lames you is down to a severe psychiatric condition he unfortunately has. He has a great deal of trouble expressing himself and has little understanding of rules or how to communicate with people, this, inevitably leads to him sometimes laming on a server, I am constantly reminding him on xfire of what he should be doing but sometimes I'm not always there or am just playing myself, we talk over xfire voice call and he does get very frustrated with the game, often screaming down the mic if he is sanctioned or even dies.

I hope this clears up why Sanyo behaves the way he does, and trust me it is very hard work for him to show the level of compliance that he does even now. I feel that his ban is totally unjustified in this regard, and I hope you can reconsider the administrative actions taken with this new information, he is suffering a personal battle and sometimes it becomes too much for him.

You must also understand that reacting to his laming is an incentive for him to lame further, while I understand it may frustrate you as people such as yodah and zelah cannot defend themselves, it may be better to either join spectate or hide to avoid this raging bull.

Despite his emotional and behavioural impairments I do feel this whole situation has been blown out of the water, we rarely do lame and if we do it is never for long, with very few exceptions.

I have no real excuse for my own behaviour apart from straddling alongside Sanyo's outlook. I am used to playing in a way that is fairly linear, i.e. a game should be played. It frustrates me to see some players complain they are not skilled enough, but spend their time not training or learning sufficiently. I understand that it is up to each player to do what they please with their time, but I hope this gives you an understanding of why I sometimes lame, if you are in the middle of a 1v1 or a ffa, expect to get hit.

I want to clarify that I, nor Sanyo, have any personal issues with ANY members of SoL, it is a good community and a decent server, although it does bother me that some players can be overly petty. I will, on my part try my hardest not to make anybodies gaming experience uncomfortable in any way, and I hope my recent behaviour on your servers reflect this. I will try my best to clear any discrepancies I have with individual players, and will enjoy my time from now on as a constructive and attentive community player.

As for Sanyo, I understand I am posting on his behalf and you may not see this as good enough on his part, but like I said earlier, he does have severe degrees of communicative retar dation, and I am simply telling you what he has told me and what I can piece together from the way he feels. I would be more than happy for me to take his month ban instead, and am fully confident that he can now try his upmost to integrate as a normal and respectful player.
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Samfp



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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 1:32 am

to add: It may also be beneficial to the community to encourage more resilience amongst players, to help avoid complaints and any unfortunate situations like this in the future. I do believe we are in the wrong here and I fully acknowledge our wrongdoings, but I feel the SoL community should also be contributing to this resolution, as it should not be a one sided change. I feel some players should in essence 'man up' a bit and get on with the game, we are doing our part from hereon, and I think players such as Yodah and Zelah in particular should maybe toughen up a little.

Sam
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 1:45 am

the problem lays within believing what people say when behind their screen, far far away.

but if this is true, then a ban on that person (sanyo) is an absolute 'NOT DONE' as long as the person realises that the game is not reality. i give zero cents or f's about a death in this game so if i can keep playing (life is happening) and if am online, just send his lames to me.

i myself have big problems with beleiving even the smallest letter written online, but things like this just sound so wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 5:56 am

I've got to respect you Sam for coming on here and making a big post like that. I actually agree with a lot of what you are saying, I find it annoying how some people take the game so seriously and get mad about laming, I think people need to just relax a little and take it as a joke. As for Sanyo, he could take the same advice, even if he has got a mental problem with it maybe he just needs to relax a little and be more respectful to the other players and their wishes.  Smile

Edit: I do believe you are telling the truth sam, but other people might need more convincing. silent 
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 6:39 am

Thanks Sam for writing here about Sanyo and to get to know him more. Still, there is something (at least in my case, let me have the right to doubt) which doesn´t fit for me. As you have said, Sanyo has psycological problems which cause him problems like not let him express properly or have a little understanding of the rules. Let´s take that last problem: "inability to understand the rules". Well if this is true, then why Sanyo would have said this?

Superyaku in 'Training-invite abuse's post' wrote:
Sanyo even made fun about it and he said literaly: "In the good old days it took me 10 mins to get banned" u can check it if u want.
NickdeClaw in 'Sanyo and Sampf's post' wrote:
I confirmed in the logs that he taunted, "took a while this time. at good days it took me 10min to get banned :s"
If he is looking to be banned, then he knows the concept of "ban" and what it "requires" to be banned. This action lead me to think that he understands the rules perfectly and that he is just making fun of the rules. I hope you could answer me this, thanks!

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 6:48 am

Padawan wrote:
So I've been told some stuff about the thread over at clan section, and heard what some people have had to say regarding me and Sanyo and 'laming' on SoL.

I understand that some of you get upset by our occasional laming, but I feel like this has been blown out of proportion with a 10 page discussion, and 1 year bans being discussed.
"Blown out of proportion" can be more about perception than reality. If we had ignored the laming, you likely would not have felt it was blown out of proportion. If we had simply banned after a 1 page discussion, you also would likely not have described it as "blown out of proportion." In this case, we had a long discussion about it because we did not want to blow it out of proportion. The length of our discussion is indicative of the degree to which we want our actions to match yours and Sanyo's actions. In that way, I do not think we've blown anything out of proportion. We've taken time to try to match proportions appropriately.

Thank you for taking the time to communicate your side of the story. My experience with Sanyo makes me doubt your story about him, but we are typically a clan of many second chances and I, for one, am certainly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt with your story and explanation.

Samfp wrote:
You must also understand that reacting to his laming is an incentive for him to lame further, while I understand it may frustrate you as people such as yodah and zelah cannot defend themselves, it may be better to either join spectate or hide to avoid this raging bull.
...
to add: It may also be beneficial to the community to encourage more resilience amongst players, to help avoid complaints and any unfortunate situations like this in the future. I do believe we are in the wrong here and I fully acknowledge our wrongdoings, but I feel the SoL community should also be contributing to this resolution, as it should not be a one sided change. I feel some players should in essence 'man up' a bit and get on with the game, we are doing our part from hereon, and I think players such as Yodah and Zelah in particular should maybe toughen up a little.
Keep in mind that we have been counseling our members to be tolerant of yours and Sanyo's laming for weeks before we finally banned Sanyo. We have been doing the best to explain why you do what you do, why it makes sense in some ways, how to mitigate the anger generated by big egos or poor communicators, how to stay calm under harassment, and how to patiently wait out laming in exclusive areas like training or spectator, or via use of a bubble and emotes.

Our members have been doing a lot of mental work to accommodate your tendencies to break the rules and harass other players. There certainly should be some room for indiscriminate slaughter on the server for a couple minutes at a time, but when the reasonable person would start to consider it harassment, it's gone over the line. This has happened multiple times in the weeks leading up to Sanyo's ban, and each time we recommended new strategies to try to mitigate the tension. Ultimately, a combination of spectating in-game, watching videos, looking at screenshots, and reading server logs over the course of weeks led to Sanyo's ban.

In giving you the benefit of the doubt for Sanyo's story, in which I assume you're saying he's on the autism spectrum, along with your commitment to try to stop harassing players, and if you are willing to try to get Sanyo to stop harassing players as much, I think we can consider reducing Sanyo's ban time and possibly resetting the stage of his ban (usually we have a three strikes and you're perma-banned policy, he's at stage 2). However, each time he evades a ban with a new IP address, as he has been doing, we may add additional ban time. Please communicate this to him.

Does this sound fair to you, Sam? Or is there more you'd like to say?
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 6:57 am

Sam, please also note that I've changed your account name to: Samfp
So you will need to use that name to log in to the forums.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:06 am

Samfp wrote:
The reason some of you may feel that he unnecessarily lames you is down to a severe psychiatric condition he unfortunately has. He has a great deal of trouble expressing himself and has little understanding of rules or how to communicate with people, this, inevitably leads to him sometimes laming on a server
Im just saying that severe psychiatric conditions are in real life very dangerous and often end up in a tragedy. These conditions are being cured in specialized facilities and such. Ppl who have such conditions react often unexpectedly and harshly. I didn't have that experience with sanyo since moment I met him first time, plus (and now I am speaking about game) it is well known he uses evc, ks and other hax purposedly (i.e. he knows what he is doing) and often lamed purposedly i.e. he was picking targets not laming randomly. Ppl who are outta their mind don't behave this way.
Samfp wrote:
it may be better to either join spectate or hide to avoid this raging bull.
Im playing the game not to spend hours spectating or being hidden somewhere. Im playing the game because I want to have fun. That can hardly be done from spec.
Samfp wrote:
I have no real excuse for my own behaviour
I noticed
Samfp wrote:
It frustrates me to see some players complain they are not skilled enough, but spend their time not training or learning sufficiently. I understand that it is up to each player to do what they please with their time, but I hope this gives you an understanding of why I sometimes lame, if you are in the middle of a 1v1 or a ffa, expect to get hit.
You are missing the point, in your case I was not complaining that I AM not skilled enough but that you were murdering my fun.
Samfp wrote:
I will try my best to clear any discrepancies I have with individual players, and will enjoy my time from now on as a constructive and attentive community player.
In that case you maybe will finally apologize to me for the excessive laming from past.

I feel it this way. I don't have other experience with sanyo then it is already known. Yes, I know him only from the game (2 years) but as for speaking for myself I was able to make rough image of him.
And that simply makes me not to believe him. At least not so far

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:44 am

Before I reply to this can I ask how he has been notified that his username is changed if he can't log on?

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 8:48 am

You can see this forum and read the topics as a Guest.
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Samfp



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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 12:44 pm

I won't answer on behalf of sanyo any further, it's not my place to and I'm sure you'd all like to hear from him, maybe not severe in that sense but enough to be noticeable i.e. disregard for others and rules.

Yodah, you've dealt with this immaturely consistently throughout, here I am offering a sound and workable solution and you stoop to picking holes in a constructive post and make digs at both me and sanyo.

I haven't used forums in a while so excuse my lack of quoting but you said:

'In that case you maybe will finally apologize to me for the excessive laming from past.'

I have individually apologised in the past to EVERY player who I might have offended on the SoL servers, you inclusive whether you remember this or not. You are the only one in this thread who hasn't contributed at all, instead you pull over your usual veil of negativity which is partly responsible for this whole mess in the first place.

I will get back to the rest of you in a more mannered way tomorrow, I don't wish to see anymore of Yodah's posts anymore, I simply can't be bothered unless its contributes towards a resolution.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 1:44 pm

Samfp wrote:
I won't answer on behalf of sanyo any further, it's not my place to and I'm sure you'd all like to hear from him, maybe not severe in that sense but enough to be noticeable i.e. disregard for others and rules.
Ok, I can accept this, but then I would like to ask something to you. What was the purpose of changing your name to "Sanyo" on the server just to "have fun" when you know we banned him and he is keep coming back again and again with different IPs? I was the one who banned you (now I have unbanned you) and I think it was really childish from you and it wasn´t respectful towards your friend Sanyo. So when you tell yodah that he is inmature for what he post (I don´t justify him, I think he could have talked to you in a better way), I don´t think you are in a position to say who is inmature here.

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 4:43 pm

Im terrible at quoting on forum so im not going to try Razz

In response to your comment that I need to toughen up, I partially agree with you, which is why I have been training more with people willing to help me like Rach and Xaso. However, Sanyo purposefully picking on weaker SoL players, not just yodah and me, shows that he is less interested in a fight, but then he is more interested in getting under our skin, which is not my fault. Also, when a person lames when I am showing someone else something, or am clearly in a whisper conversation, then it is not a matter of me needing to toughen up, it is a matter of the person doing the laming being very rude and inconsiderate, plus breaking the rules. I understand that most players are going to lame a little to an extent, but the extent Sanyo has done goes far behind what should be acceptable in my opinion.
That being said, I have noticed that you are much more respectful and helpful on server so i thank you for that.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sat 16 Nov 2013, 10:29 pm

Samfp wrote:
I have individually apologised in the past to EVERY player who I might have offended on the SoL servers, you inclusive whether you remember this or not.  You are the only one in this thread who hasn't contributed at all, instead you pull over your usual veil of negativity which is partly responsible for this whole mess in the first place
Samfp wrote:
I don't wish to see anymore of Yodah's posts anymore, I simply can't be bothered unless its contributes towards a resolution
@first quote, You have NEVER apologized to ME, you can even ask server owners for server logs. And don't you dare to accuse me as the source of negativity. Because if you didn't notice it was YOU as the source of negativity on server. You are just offending me again. That is hardly the way you will restore the good relations.

@second quote, I was being excessively lamed by you and I think its fair enough to request apology for it. I don't have clue why you are behaving like dimwit again, you just keep and keep offending me for my request for apology.


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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 3:16 am

Light: If he is looking to be banned, then he knows the concept of "ban" and what it "requires" to be banned. This action lead me to think that he understands the rules perfectly and that he is just making fun of the rules. I hope you could answer me this, thanks!

To clarify he understands but more seemingly has a distinct lack of regard or willingness to follow rules.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 3:34 am

Samfp wrote:
To clarify he understands but more seemingly has a distinct lack of regard or willingness to follow rules.
Thanks for the clarification. That is why we banned him.

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:22 am

Thank you for the explanation Sam, it serves to demonstrate your maturity just to explain the situation to us as a community. Regarding Sanyo, to me his actions and quips speak louder than your well-intentioned words. I don't think his ban should be shortened, it isn't that long until he is due to be removed from our lists anyway. His attitude after this ban ends would then lead me to consider Nick's suggestion of re-setting him in the banning stages.



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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 9:59 am

Samfp wrote:
To clarify he understands but more seemingly has a distinct lack of regard or willingness to follow rules.
Well based on Samfp's additional information, I retract my suggestion that we shorten the ban or even reset his ban stage. I stand by my original position before we banned him:

NickdeClaw wrote:
It seems like he constantly lames, he's proud of it, he has no intention to stop, and he doesn't really care if he's punished... Might as well give him the ban he's asking for.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 10:12 am

Sam what I would ask, is that despite the stragetically blunt address Yodah communicated his fustration, it evidently seems he hasn't had anything that serves to satisfy the memory, of what I imagine wasn't all that an easy time for him before you were under our scrutiny. An apology may serve to assuage his temperment and would in turn satisfy me that your explanation is purely non-subjective.

Whether you want to do this via PM or here is up to you. I would appreciate it.

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 11:18 am

Samfp wrote:
Light: If he is looking to be banned, then he knows the concept of "ban" and what it "requires" to be banned. This action lead me to think that he understands the rules perfectly and that he is just making fun of the rules. I hope you could answer me this, thanks!

To clarify he understands but more seemingly has a distinct lack of regard or willingness to follow rules.
Thanks for answering this to me, I really needed that information Smile

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 11:33 am

Sam, why dont u just tell him to not go around ban anymore? will make things easier for him in long run
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 2:27 pm

NickdeClaw wrote:
"Blown out of proportion" can be more about perception than reality. If we had ignored the laming, you likely would not have felt it was blown out of proportion. If we had simply banned after a 1 page discussion, you also would likely not have described it as "blown out of proportion."
I agree with you in this sense, it certainly did need addressing, but what I'd like to stress is that by no means were or are me and Sanyo hunting or targeting players in particular, we (clearly wrongly) see the map as a ffa and a no holding back arena, this is the way we have played the game since the start and it is how I personally have learnt, I understand that not all 'laws' or rules are transferable and in the future it will be far wiser to consider each servers individual ethos before blasting our way into a server trying to go against the grain and do what we please to an extent, it just frustrates me a little that the degree of our laming has been embellished, not being perception/reality, but made out to be more frequent than it ever was.

Lightmaster wrote:
If he is looking to be banned, then he knows the concept of "ban" and what it "requires" to be banned. This action lead me to think that he understands the rules perfectly and that he is just making fun of the rules. I hope you could answer me this, thanks!
To clarify what I am saying here is a loose justification that may give some insight into why Sanyo may behave the way he does, I am just insinuating a deeper reasoning beyond laming mindlessly and causing others grief from time to time. What I am saying shouldn't be taken so literally, I just mean that this may be why he appears to be careless in his concern for the servers guidelines. I am sure by all means that he has the ability to linearly understand the rules and I'm sure he remembers them, but more that this explains why he finds it harder to follow them, and easier to disregard them.

King Yodah wrote:
but that you were murdering my fun.
King Yodah wrote:
Im playing the game not to spend hours spectating or being hidden somewhere.
King Yodah wrote:
you maybe will finally apologize to me for the excessive laming from past.
this outlook frustrates me the most, and why I say it has been blown out of proportion, I have never lamed you to the point of excess you are stating. Yes I have inconvenienced you on occasion but never to the point where you've had to leave, never have I hunted you, 'murdered' your fun or spent hours laming you. It's your negativity and unwillingness to solve the situation, and constant battle to turn it into a personal dig that makes me extremely reluctant to show any remorse for laming you in particular at all. The fact that you expect an apology and continuously demand one frustrates me to no end and I now feel that I owe you nothing except no future laming.
In fact Yodah, out of all the people that have taken issue with laming, I have lamed you the least, yet you continue to stir the biggest fuss about it. It saddens me that you're only interested in complaining and one-upping rather than solving the issue.

Light Master wrote:
What was the purpose of changing your name to "Sanyo" on the server just to "have fun" when you know we banned him and he is keep coming back again and again with different IPs?


No purpose, just messing around and being an idiot, I was just toying, and obviously before I had a chance to rename and explain that I wasn't Sanyo, I found myself with a deserving ban. I have told him not to come back anymore and I don't believe he has since.

Light Master wrote:
I don´t think you are in a position to say who is inmature here.
I agree, as above I have an issue with Yodah's consistent petulant attitude, not a single example of immaturity.


I hope this clears everything up and we can lay this all to rest finally. Regarding bans, Sanyo has told me he is more than happy to sit out his ban and I agree that it is for the best. Shortening would have no effect in the long-term and my intention in posting was never to ask for an unban/ban on either party. I'm as good as sick of writing about it and I hope this has answered any problems anyone had, regarding Yodah, I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye, so rather than continue arguing I'd sooner accept it for what it is and carry on playing.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 7:37 pm

Well that all sounds very reasonable to me, Samfp. Thanks for the lengthy reply.

So Yodah, this is a tricky situation. On the one hand, Samfp broke the rules and lamed you quite a bit and it irritated you and ruined your gameplay experience a few times. On the other hand, laming someone a few times doesn't necessitate an apology. So Yodah feels like he was lamed enough that he was harassed and that an apology is called for. And Sampf doesn't feel like he lamed Yodah that much (and doesn't find laming disrespectful in the first place), and so he feels like asking for an apology is a little ridiculous because it shouldn't be a big deal.

I suspect the reasonable, objective observer who has all the information about your interactions would probably call for a compromise somewhere between those two positions.

Yodah can probably try harder to view the situation from Samfp's perspective, to let go of some of his irritation with the laming, and to stop demanding an apology.

Despite Samfp's belief that people shouldn't get so upset over these types of things, the reality is that you DID upset Yodah. I think that a kind person will regret when their actions upset others, even if they don't believe those actions were wrong. And so, even though it makes sense to me that you may not be sorry for laming him because that's just how you play the game, it may still be a morally superior position to apologize for the effect you had, rather than to take an unwavering stance that you owe nothing.
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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 10:10 pm

Samfp wrote:
I now feel that I owe you nothing except no future laming.
I hope this has answered any problems anyone had, regarding Yodah, I'm sorry we don't see eye to eye, so rather than continue arguing I'd sooner accept it for what it is and carry on playing.
Lets say it is at least something. Sam I am willingful to resume the good relations, I only ask one more thing, please don't call me next time immature whiny just because I don't have the same gaming philosophy as you have. You would have understand it much better if you knew me in game as good as others do. I try more deeply understand yours in return. Is it okay?
@Nick, maybe it wasnt so damn alot but surely it wasn't just few times. And sometimes I had really hard day which didn't help much the situation when I wanted to relax in game even if it meant just hoping around.

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PostSubject: Re: Samfp and Sanyo   Sun 17 Nov 2013, 11:50 pm

Sorry for laming you Yodah.
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