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 The "Name" - Qualities?

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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: The "Name" - Qualities?   Sat 20 Feb 2010, 8:11 am

First topic message reminder :

So we have decided to change our name. I think we should start by coming up with a few of the most important qualities and ideas that we would like that name to convey. We could probably create a huge list with all the things we want our clan to strive for, but names are better when they are short and sweet, so we'll have to narrow down the most integral qualities of our clan that should be conveyed. The best way to do this is to name off as many important ideas as you can, and then we can pick the ones that are most important to us. I'll start:

Kindness
Fairness
Fun
Equality
Freedom
Forgiveness
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 5:22 am

I read it and see that you're splitting hairs...they're the same in rough definition for our purpose.

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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 10:15 am

I agree with Xasomur on a technical level, but uneven balancing toward "good" is usually called "equality" in English. The United States is about equality and yet elected officials hold more power than average citizens. The thing is that the ultimate power is the equal vote of the voter base, from which all other powers are derived.
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 1:20 pm

So now we should find a few words that are pretty good at piling all of these characteristics together.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 1:28 pm

according to nick we need to find a consensus of which 5 qualities we agree on.
we have no consensus Razz
well... we could make a poll... or we make it here per discussion... i mean, kernow and me have put up arguments and it looks like we agree on some of them...
so ...
idk...
i wish nick would lead this topic XD

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Skambak
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 1:33 pm

I agree with both of you. Best factors selected
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 1:38 pm

The most important I think are

Fellowship
Equality
Respect
Democracy
Fun

I think these five virtues pretty much covers everything.
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 2:31 pm

Xasomur wrote:
i wish nick would lead this topic XD
What I would do is try to group them into common themes. I just did it myself and without even trying it came out to five groups (how fortunate!):

Kindness
Forgiveness
Companionability
Consideration
Patience
Neighborly

Fun
Friendship
Prosperity
Healthy Competition

Fairness
Equality
Freedom
Balance
Codetermination
Progressiveness
Democracy
Liberty

Trueness
Respect
Respectfulness
Dignity
Honesty

Teamwork
Dedication
Loyalty
Enthusiasm
Brotherhood
Strength
Fellowship

I know there are multiple ways to organize this, but let's try to move forward instead of arguing over what gets categorized where. In general, I feel the most applicable elements of each theme is represented by the common theme of the group to which it is assigned. If you disagree severely, then perhaps it's worth re-evaluating the assignments, but they seem pretty good to me.

From here I would recommend choosing 5 words, one word to represent each group. These words can be new or can be from their respective groups.

Here's what I see (1 for each of the 5 groups):

Compassion
Fun
Liberty
Respectfulness
Fellowship

Once we agree on the words we should try to order them in importance.
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Skambak
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 2:37 pm

Kindness
Fun
Equality
Respect
Brotherhood
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 2:55 pm

i agree on the process.

but its kind of hard for me to order these.
for example i dont really see the connection of the first group... or no real borders to for example the last group

this is hard to say determined.

i guess you could say the first group is about benevolence? or did i get it wrong?

the second is about the spirit of the game... i guess fun summarizes it the best

the third is about the fundaments of the clans order and administration. but then i cant agree on liberty. because liberty often leads to inbalance. if i am free to decide i may choose wrong things, like waste my free time with computer games xD. i personally like balance more. but i think when you say democracy. because it contains balance (of the forces), equality (of the votes), liberty (of decision) and most of the other values in that group.
but democracy is a quite political word, but it fits most

the fourth is about the fundamental attitude between the players, the coexistance of oneselve with the others and the value of one person. so yes respectfulness definately

the last... about companionship? which is too close to companionability isnt it, which is in first group.
i guess it is about the connection and the spirit of the clan. the concord and harmony?
well... maybe concord summarizes it best... idk really.

i am sure about the groups 2;3;4
but first and last :S

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Skambak
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 3:01 pm

Agree with xasomur.. but there are aspects that you didn't take into account... For example: with Kindness you have Respect and Equality; and Brotherhood involve the Respect, the fun in the game, the kindness between members
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mereel
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 3:39 pm

If I were to choose 1 thing from each group it be...

1)Kindness
2)Friendship
3)Balance
4)Respect
5)Strength
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 5:33 pm

Well I still stick to the earlier statement I made - Because it best defines what I would like to ideally present.

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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Thu 25 Feb 2010, 6:35 pm

Xasomur wrote:
i guess you could say the first group is about benevolence? or did i get it wrong?
Yeah, you could call it benevolence. Compassion is very similar though, easier on the ears (not pompous), and has a greater emphasis on being kind rather than aiding from a superior position.

Xasomur wrote:
but then i cant agree on liberty. because liberty often leads to inbalance. if i am free to decide i may choose wrong things, like waste my free time with computer games xD.
First definition for liberty on dictionary.com:
1. freedom from arbitrary or despotic government or control.

That's why I chose it. I was debating between Liberty and Balance though. Democracy is a little too restrictive in my opinion. In the future we may not be able to call our government democracy, it depends on what people want. Although it probably won't change, I feel like the reason for democracy is more important than the politics itself.

Xasomur wrote:
the last... about companionship? which is too close to companionability isnt it, which is in first group.
i guess it is about the connection and the spirit of the clan. the concord and harmony?
well... maybe concord summarizes it best... idk really.
Companionability isn't really a legit word in English, although it's in dictionary.com. Based on dictionary.com's definition, I put it with the whole Kindness thing.

The last group to me is about team coherence, not friendship but valuing your membership and really benig a part of the clan.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Fri 26 Feb 2010, 12:56 am

ok nick.
but i am afraid we cannot go on here. the ppl arent ready to discuss in order to agree on one. they choose and stick to it.

i guess we have finally to go on differently.
We could make polls in order to find the most liked of each group.

or we just skip this. because as you see those who are most active here will bring names in... and we cannot keep them from taking those values into their thoughts who werent voted in the poll. So if mereel emphazises strengh again, which i totally disagree with, btu i dont want to argue with him, he will take it in some kind into his thoughts when he thinks of a name, though strength may not be voted as the favorite of the group.
or take me, i have some name suggestions... but i estimate balance still most important... not because i was the one on the meetings thinking most about it, but because it was what i was forced to by you guys Razz, if i would have made this alone, this were much more unbalanced. But i see the balance as the highest result we've achieved throughout our existance after kicking out outcast.

so we could write now again books about something we'd never agree on. and i am afraid even a poll cannot force anybody to change his mind on finding a name.

I would propose to make something like a codex, which contains all these values.
and we just go on to propose names. and we should try to find more metaphoric names, referring maybe on a codex, or referring on our history, so that it wont contain anything that distracts someone who likes something else more and wishes it in the name.

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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Fri 26 Feb 2010, 1:08 am

I think the council should take all of these qualities into consideration and discuss which 5 would be the best. Then the rest of ATS would vote on it and if we vote no we have to put which qualities we think are best.
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Sat 27 Feb 2010, 2:57 am

Well if I had to choose four I would choose this:

1) Kindness
2) Friendship
3) Democracy
4) Honesty
5) Loyalty

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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Sat 27 Feb 2010, 3:23 am

lol kernow... u wrote "if i had to choose 4" and then: 1)...5)

lol xD

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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Sat 27 Feb 2010, 8:54 am

What I was getting at in my post of the qualities I thought were important is that it covered all of the qualities listed. For example, with Kernow's post friendship is related to kindness, and honesty is related to loyalty. So we're kind of mentioning the same thing twice when we can use those other 4 spaces for qualities that cover ALL of the things to strive for.
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Wed 03 Mar 2010, 12:28 pm

Xasomur wrote:
I would propose to make something like a codex, which contains all these values.
and we just go on to propose names. and we should try to find more metaphoric names, referring maybe on a codex, or referring on our history, so that it wont contain anything that distracts someone who likes something else more and wishes it in the name.
This is what I've been thinking as well based on the lack of agreement for the qualities. The qualities are only meant to be a guide in choosing names, not a rule. But as Blue says:

BlueNinja wrote:
What I was getting at in my post of the qualities I thought were important is that it covered all of the qualities listed. For example, with Kernow's post friendship is related to kindness, and honesty is related to loyalty. So we're kind of mentioning the same thing twice when we can use those other 4 spaces for qualities that cover ALL of the things to strive for.
Some of the qualities others have picked out overlap or repeat themselves, and so coming up with the 5 qualities were meant to make easier the thought process in brainstorming for names.

I'll make a new thread that contains all the information and we can start suggesting names. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Wed 03 Mar 2010, 12:45 pm

Xasomur wrote:
lol kernow... u wrote "if i had to choose 4" and then: 1)...5)

lol xD

Ouned xD

I think that you are going too far, it's a name, and you won't find it from the roots of the meanings of the words, but by finding the word themselves.
When i found Zealots of Freedom, i never though about the things that ZoF were supposed to show, but it matched perfectly.
You should trust more your mind and less the means you learn at school.
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: The "Name" - Qualities?   Wed 03 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm

Ajunta Pall wrote:
I think that you are going too far, it's a name, and you won't find it from the roots of the meanings of the words, but by finding the word themselves.
When i found Zealots of Freedom, i never though about the things that ZoF were supposed to show, but it matched perfectly.
You should trust more your mind and less the means you learn at school.
The mind and heart make the ultimate decision, but opportunities are missed without organization and planning. Defining what we are helps create the best symbol.
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