R.I.P Star Wars

First topic message reminder :

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/460842/lucasfilm-declares-all-star-wars-games-non-canon/

TL;DR #2 - Exi and Angel commit the offenses they incorrectly believe Xasomur is committing.

Angelis wrote:

Xaso please do me a favor, and stop trying to prolong an arguement. The fact that you think the books make the star wars trilogy and all, is your opinion. The fact that exi likes just the movies, is his opinion. There is no such thing as being wronged, because it is your opinion, the fact that others may or may not share your opinion is what is relevant. There is even no reason to try and make exi angry because he doesn't agree with you. So please do me a favor and don't prolong this, it is giving me a headache.

exactly, just as i had written, stating it are personal oppinions.
i wasnt even angry or hurt, lol, claims like that just litterally make me rofl, litterally

rofl @claw, he also missed the point.
still giving him karma for it, to funny.

lol Exi, you missed the point.

NickdeClaw wrote:

lol Exi, you missed the point.

no such thing as an "offense" for asking one to respect anothers opinions, and to stop the heat from continuing. to be honest, I could care less what exi's opinions on star wars is, or xaso's or yours, but I respect that you have an opinion, I would like for you two (xaso and nick) to be mature and do the same.

Star Wars = George Lucas' Imagination (Well it started out as that) =/= Everyone Else's Imagination and Everyone Else's Imagination = Different = Star Wars (Everything beyond the movies)

As for the right of making something not a part of it anymore, I don't know.

Are you guys seriously falling out and having arguments about this ??

Somebody just lock this topic already :/

BDL is right. Everyone has their opinions, discussing them to the point they become an argument because both sides obviously don't agree isn't necessary though .

Xasomur's opinion includes emotion. It is integral to his opinion. Without that emotion, his opinion would be fundamentally different.

This means that if you want to respect his opinion, you must also respect the emotion that is part of it. Some of that emotion is due to the opinions of others. In particular, anyone who supports declaring Expanded Universe material non-canon necessarily has an effect on the time, energy, and emotion Xasomur has spent in the past immersing himself in the Star Wars universe.

This creates a nuanced problem where the people in control and those who support those in control (Disney and ExiDux, for example) have inherent power in the situation. In other words, the future of Star Wars is going to proceed in a path decided by Disney, and therefore anyone who agrees with Disney has the privilege of not needing to fear that their opinions or experiences will be marginalized.

We've all heard that "with great power comes great responsibility." It can be strongly argued that people who are in power and those who agree with people in power have a moral responsibility to be understanding and helpful in a sincere way to those who are not in power. The simplest step to take is to affirm the opinions and emotions of those who aren't in power without turning the conversation into something about you. While this sounds easy, in reality it is very difficult for everyone who has privilege.

So how does this specifically play out in this thread? ExiDux, Angel, BDL, and Epic don't experience the same emotion that Xasomur does to this announcement. They have the privilege of not being deeply affected by the news the way that Xasomur is; it doesn't seem to affect them as much. The wrong thing to do is to automatically compete with Xasomur about how valuable your opinion is. You have less emotion invested into the topic; you have less at stake. You are certainly entitled to your differing opinion, but you may have a moral responsibility to avoid competing to make the conversation about you. Your opinion already has the power if it aligns with Disney's. This means that any strength with which you imbue your arguments primarily serves to silence the minority, not protect your opinion. Your opinion is already protected because the people in power, Disney, already agree.

The second implication is that calls to simply "agree to disagree," to stop arguing, to lock the topic, are unfairly in the best interest of the people whose opinion aligns with those in power. If the topic is closed, that is well and good for those who agree with Disney's decision because that decision will most likely occur with or without arguments. But for those who passionately disagree, privileged requests to "just agree to disagree" are effectively requests for the minority to "please stop bothering us with your opinion."

I know people in here have mostly good intentions. But sometimes asking for everyone to play nice and to not argue isn't a fair request because the playing field isn't even. This obviously does not just apply to a Star Wars forum; this is a dynamic that has far-reaching, important implications in serious real life issues. It's one of the important mechanisms at play in privilege vs. oppression dynamics that exist in all aspects of life.

While I agree with most of what you said Nick, my point was it was becoming more 'argumentative', i.e throwing insults, rather than 'debating' where each side discusses their points. I understand that people can get heated in their views and be fully invested in what their experience is on something, but it's still no cause for it to derail into arguments, on either side of the debate.

Xasomur wasn't really throwing insults, Exi was throwing passive aggressive insults (but not overt ones), and both Exi and I were engaging in snarky comments. I don't think any of those things were really derailing (although if I had responded more strongly to Exi's inaccurate claims or snark, it probably would have).

I think the primary thing that derailed the conversation were blanket requests to stop arguing. But that's just, like, my opinion, man!

Thank you, Nick, for trying to have the things make sense.
Btw, I wasn't karmarizing you before Exi gave me the idea to do it, so someone did it before me.

But yet I have already decided to not post here anymore, as I stated in my last post here: Exi and then Angel obviously turned this topic into a personal argue between me, an obviously irrationally talking twat, and Exi, a politcally correct and sincere member of the civilization. But I wanted to just voice my opinion as a boy with a now ruined childhood. But you expressed my situation much better. When they started to make me look like this self-opinionated brawler again, as many ppl tend to see me, and especially when they claimed I was only trying to grasp the last word, I just wanted them to have it. I don't care for this argue, it has no sense. I cared for the over 100 books I read when I was younger.

But since I don't want anyone to flame someone else than me, just for defending me, I recommend you to not spend another 2 hours to write such a long post again. ^^ Well I broke my inention to not post again... So I gotta say something insulting again:
Angel and Exi, don't you think it's kinda stupid to flame someone ongoingly who isn't even posting anymore, by claiming he is a flamer?

Just to point out, I wasn't naming anyone throwing insults, just that they were getting thrown around. . Maybe you're right Nick, but either way I don't think this topic was heading towards an amicable agreement .

Xasomur wrote:

Thank you, Nick, for trying to have the things make sense.
Btw, I wasn't karmarizing you before Exi gave me the idea to do it, so someone did it before me.

But yet I have already decided to not post here anymore, as I stated in my last post here: Exi and then Angel obviously turned this topic into a personal argue between me, an obviously irrationally talking twat, and Exi, a politcally correct and sincere member of the civilization. But I wanted to just voice my opinion as a boy with a now ruined childhood. But you expressed my situation much better. When they started to make me look like this self-opinionated brawler again, as many ppl tend to see me, and especially when they claimed I was only trying to grasp the last word, I just wanted them to have it. I don't care for this argue, it has no sense. I cared for the over 100 books I read when I was younger.

But since I don't want anyone to flame someone else than me, just for defending me, I recommend you to not spend another 2 hours to write such a long post again. ^^ Well I broke my inention to not post again... So I gotta say something insulting again:
Angel and Exi, don't you think it's kinda stupid to flame someone ongoingly who isn't even posting anymore, by claiming he is a flamer?

I am not arguing, I was asking you and exi to stop arguing at each other, big difference good sir.

EpicJK2 wrote:

Just to point out, I wasn't naming anyone throwing insults, just that they were getting thrown around. . Maybe you're right Nick, but either way I don't think this topic was heading towards an amicable agreement .

Oh, I didn't mean to say you were naming them. I was just trying to choose all the people that might have been named if someone tried to name them.

And you're right, it wasn't heading anywhere positive. I argue that it is the responsibility of those in power to extend peace offerings, because peace offerings from those without power are almost always declined unless they conform to the power structure's opinion. Such is the privilege of power.

The problem usually occurs when good people don't realize they have power or privilege. When everyone thinks they're oppressed, no one wants to give up what little power they perceive themselves to have.

IT'S OK XASO BBY YOU AND I CAN HUDDLE TOGETHER AND C R Y! I WILL BRING MANY TISSUES! D:

NickdeClaw wrote:

Xasomur's opinion includes emotion. It is integral to his opinion. Without that emotion, his opinion would be fundamentally different.

This means that if you want to respect his opinion, you must also respect the emotion that is part of it. Some of that emotion is due to the opinions of others. In particular, anyone who supports declaring Expanded Universe material non-canon necessarily has an effect on the time, energy, and emotion Xasomur has spent in the past immersing himself in the Star Wars universe.

This creates a nuanced problem where the people in control and those who support those in control (Disney and ExiDux, for example) have inherent power in the situation. In other words, the future of Star Wars is going to proceed in a path decided by Disney, and therefore anyone who agrees with Disney has the privilege of not needing to fear that their opinions or experiences will be marginalized.

We've all heard that "with great power comes great responsibility." It can be strongly argued that people who are in power and those who agree with people in power have a moral responsibility to be understanding and helpful in a sincere way to those who are not in power. The simplest step to take is to affirm the opinions and emotions of those who aren't in power without turning the conversation into something about you. While this sounds easy, in reality it is very difficult for everyone who has privilege.

So how does this specifically play out in this thread? ExiDux, Angel, BDL, and Epic don't experience the same emotion that Xasomur does to this announcement. They have the privilege of not being deeply affected by the news the way that Xasomur is; it doesn't seem to affect them as much. The wrong thing to do is to automatically compete with Xasomur about how valuable your opinion is. You have less emotion invested into the topic; you have less at stake. You are certainly entitled to your differing opinion, but you may have a moral responsibility to avoid competing to make the conversation about you. Your opinion already has the power if it aligns with Disney's. This means that any strength with which you imbue your arguments primarily serves to silence the minority, not protect your opinion. Your opinion is already protected because the people in power, Disney, already agree.

The second implication is that calls to simply "agree to disagree," to stop arguing, to lock the topic, are unfairly in the best interest of the people whose opinion aligns with those in power. If the topic is closed, that is well and good for those who agree with Disney's decision because that decision will most likely occur with or without arguments. But for those who passionately disagree, privileged requests to "just agree to disagree" are effectively requests for the minority to "please stop bothering us with your opinion."

I know people in here have mostly good intentions. But sometimes asking for everyone to play nice and to not argue isn't a fair request because the playing field isn't even. This obviously does not just apply to a Star Wars forum; this is a dynamic that has far-reaching, important implications in serious real life issues. It's one of the important mechanisms at play in privilege vs. oppression dynamics that exist in all aspects of life.

TLDR.


Okay I read like half of it.

A Silver Lining to the EU canon dump

The official statement from LucasFilm said that The Clone Wars series is being retained in the new canon, and that all content from that series is now considered as equally important in the Star Wars Universe as the films in terms of canon (unlike the old tiered system).

The silver lining here for us EU fans is that The Clone Wars, while not perfect, actually included a lot of elements from the EU, which have now been "elevated" into the new canon. A few of these include:

EDITED:

Quinlan Vos' Appearance
The Kiffar Species
Delta Squad
Korriban (aka Moraband)
Onderon
Dathomir
Saleucami
Devaron
The Nightsisters
Mandalore
Death Watch
The Viszla family
Shatterpoints
Ilum
Dac
Cin Drallig
White Lightsabers
Yellow Lighstabers
Shoto Lightsabers
Jar Kai Lightsaber Fighting Style
Coruscant Level 1313
Sifo Dyas' appearance
Black Sun
Appearance of Sith Lords from the Old Republic
Darth Bane (although technically he's a Lucas creation)
The Zygaryan Slavers

All of the above were previously C-Canon elements that have now been brought up into new canon. Sure it's not much, but hey, it's something.

Han shot first

Clone Wars still thrashed around what made Mandalorian badasses. They made the badasses into bad guys. That can not be forgiven! WE ARE ANTI-HEROES DAMN IT! ANTI - HEROES!!!!

Xasomur wrote:

They want to tell me, that those 80 Star Wars books of the expanded Universe are all undone now? All the stories wrong and wiped out? All the hours and days I suffered with Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Chewbacca (RIP), Jacen, Jaina, Kyle, Kyp, Mara, Anakin, Ben and many more characters that rightfully continued the tale, are now in vain? Only let JJ Abrams make a movie with a plot HE likes? Or is it Disney who cares even less about the Fans of the Star Wars Universe than George Lucas did?
This leaves me speechless. Someone who can call this a wise or a good decision can't ever have read a Star Wars book. Must be a person who gives a damn about the characters and the tale of the universe. This can only be said by a cineast, who doesn't see anything of Star Wars but some old movies. This person disregards the millions of people, who enjoyed and connected to the Expanded Universe, who didn't recognize it as a mere Expansion, but as the rightful continuing of the Saga, the true platform to keep telling the tale.
Episode VII already exists since Timothy Zahn wrote Heir to the Empire, and we already know the names of VIII and IX since 1993. So I say screw the new movie, fly a kite disney, pity Abrams and RIP Star Wars.

Edit: This time I can't accept our forum censor.
F U C K Disney

Cheers, although at least now Chewie is technically not dead, but I wholeheartedly agree. George up and pissed off right after he made 6 movies, there were absolutely NO PLANS for future releases. The books and games should, for the most part, be canon. Because technically, Mara, Kyle, Jacen, Jaina, etc. don't exist now, and EU was completely structured around the movies. If Han and Leia have a little Bobby. I'm going to rage. This is not right, and seems more to me like Disney is full of lazy twats not wanting to bend to actual events, and instead create some abysmal Disney standard that would revolutionize (read, make the most money) out of the series (perhaps a twilight or hunger games type of theme? Edward Skywalker and Bella Solo anyone?) . The future movies will be non-canon to me before ANY of the books or games.

<3 raynE

I'd have to say though, A Darth Caedus would be the easiest way to make a 7, 8, and 9.

I do also strongly believe that Darth Bane should be considered canon, one because the Sith Brotherhood story arc would fit together, and would also eloquently explain "The Rule of Two" a master, and an apprentice.

All I'm hoping for is that JJ Abrams doesnt pervert the story much like he did in the Star Trek reboot.

Kirk is supposed to yell KHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAN, not Spock you idiot.

Leonardo wrote:

I'd have to say though, A Darth Caedus would be the easiest way to make a 7, 8, and 9.

I do also strongly believe that Darth Bane should be considered canon, one because the Sith Brotherhood story arc would fit together, and would also eloquently explain "The Rule of Two" a master, and an apprentice.

All I'm hoping for is that JJ Abrams doesnt pervert the story much like he did in the Star Trek reboot.

Kirk is supposed to yell KHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAN, not Spock you idiot.

I have great fear for this j.j. Abrams his work surrounding starwars.
The directing he showed in those star trek abominations with the 'kewl' choice to have lens flairs everywhere and 'the pace' of those movies being faster then healthy..

I seriously hope they fire that guy, or just put him on some transformers movies or such...
if he does to starwars trough directing as what he did to star-trek... i can see some REAL starwars
fans developing murderous intent.

Honestly, I thought the new Star Trek movies were better Star Wars movies than anything. They had that feel way more than Star Trek.