beer'n'else

First topic message reminder :

who makes best beer over the world: the germans ^^

what to do when u are just too drunk? take a drink ^^

well then every pic of a sexy women is sexist...
every sexy women leads to sexism...
stop taking photos of good lookin women

as soon as a girl looks good, and likes to look good, it leads to sexism...
then im ok with being sexistic... as my girl should be sexy... and likes to be sexy... if that gotta do with sexism its ok for me...

i am a non-suppressing, non-patronizing, sensitive, caring and loving sexist, because i like cute girls...

i can live with that

hehe, don't mix everything.
A girl bent with her ass in firstground, you can't say it's not sexist. But a tasty chick tooked for some clothes ads, or actresses, then it's ok. Example :

<a href="http://www.bullz-eye.com/gm/2009/Brandie_Moses/140x280.jpg">sex</a>
<a href="http://media.chauffeurdebuzz.com/2/1209116201_Scarlett-Johansson.jpg">Beautifull woman</a>

To my mind ...

XD hang on...are we going off topic a little....we are meant to be talking about beer....not porn and sexy women????? XDXD

lol aju, the first pix is shit, as it has no joke, and she is ugly... so i dont even cara about that, the second is hot... and i would see her more as an object, as its for me not about here as a women with character, but a women with tits...
but my pic still has joke, and jokes always play with stereotypes...

the problems seem to be the minds who are just too stuck...
you can see women as an object on pics and in real life... do font blame the pic, blame the ones who are stuck to biased thoughts...
i can see a pic, and i can look at it as it was purposed to, so i can see a pic and feel sad, happy, horny, shocked, amused... and i can meet persons in real life and get them to know as the characters they are...

if someone of you sees a pic, and you interprate a world into it is not purposed for, it is your fault... as u shouldnt trie to brush your teeth with a knife.
and all those are to blame who are all-time stuck to their prejudices and biased thinking, blame all those who see that pic and are treating women bad...

^^ i can play jk2, but it doesnt mean i take my light saber in real life and duel real ppl...

those big things ppl makin of those things just prove to me a fail of life-focuses, as you have the time to bother ppl for nonsence, and stealing my time now

its similar to video games though, as some ppl see a direct relation between this video games and rampages at schools...
me at least, i can divide it... and the most ppl DO divide it...

and its not like that pic is harsh... its harmless..., its content is not harassment, violation, or something like that... its only sexiness and humoer... everything else is just interpretaded into by you

Me i can't drink beer yet, i tried one time, but it was like horse piss, it was very bad

I prefer vine before a beer.

i don't like vine neither, it's not tasty. I like more, coca cola !

Meh coca cola is no good it doesnt get you pissed! unless its mixed with vodka or jack daniels!

Well, I was going to reply to each point individually, but I'm not feeling much positive reaction here so I'll keep this general.

Let me first state quite sincerely that my purpose is not to insult you, although what I have to say is insulting. This is literally the conclusion I've come to in reading and rereading your posts. Phoenix and Xaso, both of you seem to be missing my points, and unfortunately each time you post you seem to create example situations to reinforce your argument, but they are always irrelevant relative to my points. Basically I'm saying that you are not arguing against my points, but instead creating new points of your own and make them sound as though they are responses to my points, when logically they do not make sense in the context of being responses. If any of you are truly interested, I'm willing to spend many hours talking through it with you. A chatroom situation where I can stop you in the middle of an irrelevant argument would be best.

But perhaps we must just chalk it up to a difference in culture and upbringing, or something along those lines. It's clear to me that there are strong gender stereotypes and attitudes, and many of them are negative in my opinion. Perhaps Europe is happy with their gender stereotypes, and if people are happy then there is no problem. I am sincerely unhappy with them, however, which is why I talk about this; it is not because I just want to "make a fuss." Regardless, absolute morals do not exist and choice is an illusion in a contained universe, which ours is in all probability, so really any moral judgement is arbitrary and therefore all moral judgements are equivalent in their degree of being just, since justice does not exist. Still, I seem to be alive, and so I would prefer to effect change in the world that leads to more happiness, since I find nothing else worth effort in life.

Which brings me to some simple statements. Bear in mind that these all hinge on the assumption that gender stereotypes are primarily caused by arbitrary social standards. I am a strong believer in the existence of genetic and/or instinctual effects on the creation of social standards, but I am not so naive as to claim that such genetics are always the cause or always a powerful cause. The vast potential difference in human behavior and customs evident by observing the various cultures of the world shows that the majority of specific social standards are not linked or not strongly linked to genetics. Given the preceding, without even considering the idea that choice is an illusion, it's clear that social standards are largely arbitrary. So, my statements: I would prefer to live in a world where neither men nor women feel the need to shave their legs. Such cultures do exist on Earth without incident, so I judge this to be largely arbitrary, with admittedly probable roots in the male gender's ubiquitous desire for signs of youth in mates. In such a world, men would not prefer women to have shaved legs, because the standard would be hairy legs. In such a world, shaved legs would be taboo or at the very least deviant. Much to the shock of your current societal instincts, you would desire such legs, likely over the shaven ones. Why would I prefer this world? I will admit it is in some small part due to the fact that I am lazy and would not wish arbitrary work on to others, but the biggest reason is because this small gender-polarized standard is just one small part of an immense network of interrelated gender standards that, as a whole, have the potential to empower or depress those to whom the standards are applied. It is those standards which depress that I attempt to rebel against.

You need not claim that the image in question is not sexist. There are countless scholars who disagree with you, and countless more average people who do as well. There are also average and scholarly people who agree with you, although in my experience they are fewer. But there is a divide, and you can not knowledgeably deny it, although feel free to naively deny it.

This will be my last post in this thread. I expect for there to be retaliation to which I am quite comfortable retaliating in turn, but I will not do so in this thread, so please do not feel victorious when you have the last word. As I said before, I am more than willing to discuss this at length in a chatroom. I enjoy discussing philosophy that has real world application or "truth," but after a certain point I must have the opportunity to interject or my point cannot be properly conveyed.

I apologize for the insults that occurred as a side-effect of this post. I think you guys are great, I just strongly disagree with you on this.

Can the debate of beautiful women just stop.. It is giving me a headache. We all have different opinions on girls. It is called "tastes". We also have different views on sexists, sexism, and just plain sex. But come on guys. We are arguing about girls here. GIRLS. This shouldn't be treated like a bill at the senate. Come on. We are GUYS. We do what guys do best: Drink, eat, sleep, fart, and look at beautiful women. And boys are boys too: eat, sleep, and get in trouble (good trouble xD). So just drop this guys. Be men (or boys)! Have fun! And enjoy the ladies (or games or girls if your a boy)!!

i see nick is reaching for the stars ^^, so am i in some cases, which are importnat to me...
in other cases i am just not that interested, so i stay quite pragmatic...

when our society norms where different, and our upbringing where different, we all would think different of course...
this fits to all... and on some things I'd say that we have to change these in order to effort a admireable result... which is for me about politics, world changing occurings and stuff... things about my male way through my life, and my importnace in this world and the sense of life ^^ if u so want i am quite self-focussed, on what i want, and i project it on other ppl... (not means i am selfish, but the things i think are important, should be important for others too... things like truth, liberty and wit, and these all in a worldly character)
this is quite old

nicks importance in women, the equality between naturally divided ppl, is quite new, a result of the early modern ages ^^
so nick would want to change the social standarts in order to improve that equality, like i would do for the things i said. but i wouldnt change these standarts for the things nick said, as it is just impossible in my eyes, and i will explain shortly why later on

the best example for what i mean is the newest one in these:
importance of environment. It is only 40-50 years old... and eveen those who praise it wont go so far, to say that we should stop use cars from now to then, or should buy only bio-food and stuff... the pragmatic view on this is just too strong, and so is my view on the sexism too...

the grogress is that i take women into my consideration, to those things i see the importance in... But the thing itself in our social norms is not important for me. thats why i say, similar to mereel, im a man, and i like good looking girls, and i like to see them... girls looking good, and girls like to look good^^
so i dont wanna change it, even if i think that total equality would be progressive, i just dont see the possibility to get it in the minds of the people, as it isnt really in mine too... and i see no arguments that could convince me.

all that what nick is saying is just failing to me, as it seems just unreal to me, and just like he is reaching for the stars. the time has not come, thats why we dont see the arguments of each other.

i still think i am right^^, but i would admit that i am antiquated, and thats why i give nick the point, he is the generation i would like to give the lead in this thing... but i just dont fit to that...

NickdeClaw wrote:

I apologize for the insults that occurred as a side-effect of this post. I think you guys are great, I just strongly disagree with you on this.

@ NickdeClaw:hehe , I dont see insults mate, please dont be under the impression that i am offended. Your arguement is a result of emphasis required to get your point across and how strongly you feel about the matter. Under such arguements it is important not to allow emotions to become involved, and i make sure i dont .

Myself, youself Nick and Xaso are mature and responsible enough adults ,so we are all capable for having a debate and discussion on our differences of opinion without it affecting our friendship at all. (which is great).

NickdeClaw wrote:

Which brings me to some simple statements. Bear in mind that these all hinge on the assumption that gender stereotypes are primarily caused by arbitrary social standards. I am a strong believer in the existence of genetic and/or instinctual effects on the creation of social standards, but I am not so naive as to claim that such genetics are always the cause or always a powerful cause. The vast potential difference in human behavior and customs evident by observing the various cultures of the world shows that the majority of specific social standards are not linked or not strongly linked to genetics. Given the preceding, without even considering the idea that choice is an illusion, it's clear that social standards are largely arbitrary. So, my statements: I would prefer to live in a world where neither men nor women feel the need to shave their legs. Such cultures do exist on Earth without incident, so I judge this to be largely arbitrary, with admittedly probable roots in the male gender's ubiquitous desire for signs of youth in mates. In such a world, men would not prefer women to have shaved legs, because the standard would be hairy legs. In such a world, shaved legs would be taboo or at the very least deviant. Much to the shock of your current societal instincts, you would desire such legs, likely over the shaven ones. Why would I prefer this world? I will admit it is in some small part due to the fact that I am lazy and would not wish arbitrary work on to others, but the biggest reason is because this small gender-polarized standard is just one small part of an immense network of interrelated gender standards that, as a whole, have the potential to empower or depress those to whom the standards are applied. It is those standards which depress that I attempt to rebel against.

Well nick I think the game is up, because i the reasoning behing these statements are very fair and pretty much rock solid against diagreement. (u win m8 )

The depression point in particular is very good and i would like to elaborate at little.
So ok in the western world we have all kinds of labeled stereotypes which create the idea of inequality or bias. I cant agrue with nick on his preferred world scenario because that equality and fairness riegns true.

So in other parts of the world it is not just socially tolerated but socially encouraged for a woman to not shave her legs or other body parts ect...ect..... Its seems very much as these societies have the grasp of human rights and social equality much better than we do.

I mean i couldnt stand to go with a girl with hairy legs, it would be a total nightmare, but thats only because the stereotype made it so. Girls shave now from a very young age and ever since i remember, they shaved their legs, wore thongs, make up, ect.... It is not nessasary socially required for a girl to do these things, but in not doing so she is making herself a socially vunerable and putting any chance of acceptance in jeopardy.

So if i was brought up in a world were women had hairy legs, no make up, no sexy chlothing ect...ect...(btw even when i was at school 75% of the girls wore thongs!) would i be repulsed by this when i saw a woman?
Of course not! i wouldnt know any difference because girls will have always been like that! Same as now i want girls to wear sexy stuff, make up (although i am a fan of natural beauty), and shave their body parts bacause that to me is how a woman has always been!

So i think i finally can come to an understanding of nicks comments. Girls are not born wearing make up, not born wearing langerie, and not born grow up without body hair. It is society that has made such things unacceptable, the social standard that forces women to do these things because if not the consequences and repercussions at that she would be and outcast. So i a certain sense, society can be sexist against its own members!

For me there is only one place to point the finger, and that of course is the media. The media plays such as big and influencial part of social standard and is the rallying point to how people see themselves, each other, and more importantly how the media says people should look. The problem is that nowadays we have celebrities with boat loads of cash, getting things like botox, boob jobs and other unnatural enhancements in order to look better in spotlight.

This is the problem and its small wonder that girls are getting depressed, because all celebrities do to keep themselves beautiful is throw money at the problem. The problem is that in the real world it is just not an option, however the media idolizes these celebrities and models even though most of them are effectively fake! Girls of today have no change of competing with them and just cant keep up, so they fall into a lull of depression because they are not as beautiful or as attractive as they think they should be, which is completly wrong! Its the fake celebrities who push the boundries of what is natural to the extreme. For me their is no beating natural beauty but you cant expect girls to look at it that way because the media is always creating and raising new standards and levels of expectancy.

Let none of us forget this key point, when we open a magazine and view a model or celebrity pictured. The person is not in there true nature form, in fact far from it. First of all they are plastered in make up, then the lighting and camera angles are altered so that the light hits the girl in such a way that she looks much better than usual. As if that wernt enough the image is then airbrushed and filtered so that the celebrity has no blemishes and a much more even skin tone. All of the pictures we have in magazines are severly digitally enhanced. This just isnt fair for the girls who idolize those celebrities who are in the media because when the girl tries to emulate them they just dont have the money or tools to put themselves in the same league.

So i got to agree with nick, social equality and natural beauty just arnt there anymore, The whole thing has been warped by society. Its small wonder that depession exsists because there is a void between celebrity and media, and real life and aspiring girls. This depression as nick rightly says should be irradicated, because as a result sexism exsists in societly itself not just amonst people.

So im pleased that we understand one another nick, im going to say no more on this issue because this text nearly killed me!

did u read my post phoenix? ^^

OMG Guys read my post above ---^

ouaf ouaf, all these debats, for jokes -.-'

Have fun !

i quoted u mereel xD

and we are getting consense...
some ppl should read first and than complain

lol xaso, we were writing ours at the same time but i didnt post it straight away, i went to eat before posting it which it why yours is above mine!

im on a good way ^^ bad nick and bad phoenix XD

Beer! XD

biggest post goes to Nick

ik i was joking


shortest post goes to Abrum