Friday Night - Aburm and Max's Conversation

So, here it is:
But please read it all, it all changes from the start to the end.

Maximus says:
HEY
Abrum/Ommar says:
hey
Maximus says:
HERNY TOLD ME SOMETHING ABOUT
U POSTED SOME THING WITH
TRY TO SAID "WE R ONLY USING U"   ?
Abrum/Ommar says:
yeah
i said that
Maximus says:
SO
WHY DID U SID THAT?
SAID
Abrum/Ommar says:
why the caps bro?
Maximus says:
I LIKE IT
Abrum/Ommar says:
very well
well.
Maximus says:
CAN U EXPLAIN ME
Abrum/Ommar says:
I said that because outcast said "I made ATS. I do what i wish."

Including ban people.
Maximus says:
WHEN DID U READ THAT?
Abrum/Ommar says:
Look Max, I'm not going ot give you back any maps or give you the new ones, not until Outcast himself gets on MSN and talks to me.
Maximus says:
UR MAPS
DO U THINK
IM HERE FOR UR MAPS?
Abrum/Ommar says:
Yeah.
Maximus says:
FORGET IT OK
FORGET IT
Abrum/Ommar says:
Why else would you talk to me? why not kernow?
sebbat
Maximus says:
I DONT KNOW
THEY R OTHER PEOPLE NOW
SO
WHEN U TALKED WITH OUTCAST?
Abrum/Ommar says:
I haven't.
Maximus says:
SO
U SAID
Abrum/Ommar says:
Kernow gave me that quote.
Maximus says:
THAT KID GAVE U THAT
AND U PLAY WITH US
SAYING OH MAX
IM SEEING WHAT HAPPENING
Abrum/Ommar says:
""i have a program on my pc at work, which gives me an alarme, a noise, when someone connects to the server with a known ip""
"Some have fallen easily, but like i say: what easily comes, goes easily"
"Outcast: This [mod] has one good function: it lets u ignore ppl that annoy you. For example: to make it most easy, we take a football team as example: you have to concentrate in the team. (lusant:
there is more
Maximus says:
OH MAX THE OTHER GUYS R ONLY INMATURE KDS
Abrum/Ommar says:
kernow has full conversation
no Max, Henry is inmature.
He lagged our server.
Maximus says:
U SAID
UR SERVER
OK
I DID A TERRIBLE MISTAKE TO TRUST IN U
RIGHT?
Abrum/Ommar says:
Sorry Max, I'm not going to hurt your server, I'm just staying away.
Maximus says:
OK GO AWAY
Abrum/Ommar says:
Fine.
Maximus says:
BUT I WILL TELL U SOMETHING
AND ALL OF UR FRIENDS
IF U WANNA STAY TOGUETER
STAY
BUT CHANGE UR CLAN NAME
OK?
THAT IS THE MORE CLEAR EXIT AT ALL OF THIS PROBLEMS
Abrum/Ommar says:
I'll tell them.
Maximus says:
CAN U DO THAT FOR ME?
SO ALL I WANT NOW
Abrum/Ommar says:
I need to talk to Outcast, but I'll tell them now.
Maximus says:
ITS TO KEEP MY CLAN IN SAFE LIKE ALWAYS
AND PLAY
U WILL TALK WITH HIM LATER
WHEN HE COMES
BUT M8
I TRUSTED IN U
AND U ONLY PLAYED WITH ME
AND I DONT LIKE UR BEHAVIOR
UR COMMENTS
AND UR BAD FEELING ABOUT THIS
Abrum/Ommar says:
You did, I played a bad game with you Max, one that Outcast started.
Maximus says:
OUTCAS
NOW I WILL SAY SOMTHING
LIKE A OWNER
THE OWNER CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS
LIKE U
IN UR MAPS
IS UR CREATION
AND U WANT TO READ
OK ABRUM
UR MAP IS MINE
NOW ITS CALLED MAXIMUS MAP
U LIKE IT RIGHT
?
Abrum/Ommar says:
No, I'd not like that.
Maximus says:
ITS THE SAME EXAMPLE FOR ALL OF U
DO A DIFERENT CLAN NAME
AND DO OTHER THINGS
IM TIRED
TO READ IN ATS REAL FORUM
THE SAME HISTORY
ABOUT UR INMATURE FRIENDS
KERNOW,XASO,NINJA AND THE KID AJNTA PALL
AND ALL UR FRIENDS WHO CAME HERE AND SPY US
ITS EASY
FOUND A NEW CLAN
Abrum/Ommar says:
They are at a tough age Max, take it easy on them.
Maximus says:
WITH UR OWN "DEMOCRACY"
SO FAR AWAY FROM US
NO IM NOT
U START THIS NOW WITH ME
BECAUSE
I TRUSTED IN U
I TALK WITH OUTCAST TO GIVE U THE HC
THE FTP COUNT
WE TALKED ABOUT IT
AND U CHEAT ME WITH UR PLAY
RIGHT?
Abrum/Ommar says:
Actually, our peopel lagged your server. Then we said sorry and we'd stop.
Then they hacked us back.
Maximus says:
I WIILL SAID U SOMETHING
IF I CATCH SOME OF UR PEOPLE DOING THAT HERE I WILL KICKBAN THEM
I SWEAR OF GOD
I DONT LIKE TO DO THAR
THAT
BUT UR CLONES
PISSED ME OFF
Abrum/Ommar says:
Then you're a better leader then Outcast, according to what I hear about his banning.
And see.
Maximus says:
YES
I BAN CRAP PEOPLE
THE PEOPLE THAT U WANT
LAGG
CRASH
HACK
YES THAT PEOPLE
AND IF HERNY DO THAT
I WILL QUIT HIM HIS ADMIN
AND VERY PISSED WITH KIDS BEHAVIOR
I DONT WANT THAT KIND OF SHIT IN HERE
Abrum/Ommar says:
This game is mostly of kids, Max, it's nothing more then it was before.
Maximus says:
YES
I SEEING
IS AROUND KIDS
BUT IM NOT A KID
AND FOR U
IM THE SAME
I FU SAY
BANNING PEOPLE LIKE OUTCAST
U KNOW NOW WHY WE BANNING PEOPLE
OK
?
SO FOUND A NEW CLAN WITH THEM
TELL THEM
AND THIS WILL END
NO MORE ATS
ONLY US
THE REAL ONE
OK?
Abrum/Ommar says:
I'll tell them.
Maximus says:
I THINK NOW
I TALKED MATURE
WITH U
RIGHT?
Abrum/Ommar says:
Yes, we did.
Maximus says:
THATS GOOD
AND I HOPE ABRUM
BECAUSE I KNOW THISNOT UR FALUT
BECAUSE I HAVE A GOOD CONCEPT  OF U AFTER ALL
Abrum/Ommar says:
There is something about you that I like too, Max.
Maximus says:
WHAT?
Abrum/Ommar says:
You're very honest with me, you have talked maturely to me, you've told me to think for myself, that's the most important thing to me now.
Maximus says:
YES I ALWAYS BE HONEST WITH U
AND THANKS FOR DONT DO BAD THINGS TO ATS FTP
OR DINT
DIDNT
Abrum/Ommar says:
It's your property.
Maximus says:
THANKS
THATS THE IDEA
PEOPLE NEED TO RESPECT THE PROPERTY
AND THE HONOR
Abrum/Ommar says:
Keep it up too, you have some new members coming. I'll be seeing you around.
Maximus says:
OK M8
Abrum/Ommar says:
This whole thing is causing us all to think a lot, all who take it seriously, perhaps we'll get lucky some day.

So, you all know what we said tonight.

So, we'll keep to our rules, our beliefs, but the name belongs to them. This is how to end a conflict, at least it is how we did. Max and I are at peace, I await Outcast's word, as do we all. Thanks for reading.

This of course begs the discussion of what is ATS. I'm surprised you didn't bring that up with him. ATS belongs to "them"? Who is "them"? Is ATS a clan of many people, or is ATS a few leaders who created it and are largely inactive? I certainly didn't join ATS thinking that it was a group of about 5 people that happened to have 30 more following and worshipping them for no apparent reason. I joined it for the community that it claimed to be.

However, at this point I would rather have peace and finality than hold fast to my morals on this topic. The question is, would those in Outcast's ATS even accept such a peace offering, or instead continue to rub the topic in our faces? I'm not optimistic, but I'm open to the idea of creating a new name that aspires to something greater than what ATS apparently was when I joined it.

The ATS name stays....end of story -___-

i am NOT happy about this... i see abrum doin a good job, yes, but like nick said, someone finally has to show them, that ats is not tyrany of the few... what else is theirs? herny, sylba and kyle are defending them..., but as u saw at hernys last post, which i actually liked, that this was the reason... there is no free will...
it just proves that their ats isnt about fair play and respect... it is just about obeying outcast and maximus. and when maximus calles us all, kernow and me (and blue) kids, this IS unrespectful, if u read what we are trying to say on their forum... and if u read what i tried to tell maximus...

maximus is only that nice to abrum, because he did not question that their ats is the real ats -.-
he did not question that values...
he did not question, that maximus said, that the founder can do what he want
he did not question, that maximus demanded to respect "property" (and honor)... well but at least he stays right, that the server is THEIR property... but abrums maps are HIS property... but as outcast said... ^^ i have the screenies and the text... i can add the quotation here too xD as outcast says: it is more than a server and a web.
^^
and here is the point.
we see ats as VALUES more than server and web... and the VALUES are not THEIR PROPERTY... neva! values are no-ones property, so i cant see their legitimation to call us fakes in that way
but they dont see the values at that importance
they only see the ORDER... outcast only talks about ordering/assambling a clan...
for him ats is HIS order and his assamble and his arrangement. and they believe it is their property... the only thing is... that we, as part of that arrangement and order... are NOT his property...
we cant obviously change his thoughts about that, but he still is wrong, and that TAKES him the legitimation to be the "true ats"

and some last words to the honor... honor has to be deserved... and can be lost again...
i can be robin hood... steal from the rich and give it to the poor... and just imagine he would have started to steal the poort and give it to the rich afterwards...
do any of u think, that he would have kept his honor?
lol

that conversation may seem a progress for some, but for me not.... not at all...
(btw... we could offer them the screenies we quoted... that would be funny like hell xD)

Nice words xaso,karma for u bro!

Omg, I don't believe these guys, and I'm starting to see a pattern here. They just want to silence someone forever because they just don't know how to admit they're wrong. So they go to the put-downs, and then they start to ignore, then we have to go straight to the source of their communications and start "spamming" everywhere, just to try to get a message across. These guys are ignoring a part of them just because they don't want to admit their wrong, and just as important, they don't want to lose their power. I'm extremely displeased with Max, someone who said that he wasn't a kid, act like this. But Max turns out to be just like Outcast, can't believe I hadn't noticed this earlier...

amd he acts like herny >_< and i thought i was stupid >_<

Bleh, you guys have passive behaviors. YOU CAN'T I MEET ONE OF THEM !!!!!!!! BOUHOUHOU

If i could speak at least with max, and best with outast -.-'

Grrrrrrr maximus -_-. Just another child living in outcasts pocket bestowed with power and greed, meh this guy is like kyle, no real idea whats going on, doesnt see our point of view and doesnt want to, just a gimp who is Outcasts lap dog.

Abrum wrote:

OUTCAS
NOW I WILL SAY SOMTHING
LIKE A OWNER
THE OWNER CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS
LIKE U
IN UR MAPS
IS UR CREATION
AND U WANT TO READ
OK ABRUM
UR MAP IS MINE
NOW ITS CALLED MAXIMUS MAP
U LIKE IT RIGHT

And this comment he can stick right up his arse because he could not be further from the truth. The owner cant "just do what he likes" not when there are other people at stake. We contributed and we loyal to ATS and he owes us the respect for that in return. It means that he cant just piss off when he feels like it, we were a team, a clan to which we all played our part, and because of that we may have our say. So for him so just nick off without explaining anything, and then return laying claim to ATS is just wrong and intolerable, and now he's paying the price.

Imagine that Outcast is the owner of a big company, and we were his workforce, if one day he just decided to piss off without a word to anybody, and left us (his workforce) in the lurch, do you think he could come back and do what he has? Could he hell, there would be totally chaos, the employement rights union would come down on him like a ton of bricks! There would be solicitors going crazy! Tribunals all over the place, people sueing Outcast left right and centre!

See even owners need to respect the rights and needs of their contibutary work force and if they dont they can expect to get punished to the full extent.

SO OUTCAST YOU PISSED OFF, LEFT OF US IN THE LURCH, SCREWED US. I GUESS YOU CAN SAY THAT THE NEW ATS WE HAVE FORMED CAN BE CONSIDERED OUR REDUNDANCY PAYOFF, OUR CONPENSATION!

And max....grrrrrr. What is the deal with this immature powerhunger half wit calling everybody kid? Is he hoping to offend everybody because if he called me a kid it would certainly work, it would raise hell with him. So maximus do youself a favour and pull your tongue out of outcasts arse and start showing us more respect. You guys are the fakes, you dont follow any of the values or traits that you youselfs laid down n the first place! The irony!

Oh and incidently (because i have no idea) how old are out and max? I mean real age not mental age which im assuming is about 4. Outcast must be older than me if he's ran a server for all these years?

Let me clarify, you mean that we're basically on strike and are going about it maturely, which I agree on. So we are still ATS workers but are on strike, we demand a new way as a worker would wages. Am I right?

Mmm sort off, but in this case its rather like Outcast has been sued, arrested for breach of contract, and stripped of his power. His betrayal gives us the right to reform ATS and start afresh. That starting ATS again is our compensation and his penalty for trying to ruin everything for everybody and bring chaos amongst us.

Let me just stress that this entire ordeal is outcasts fault, every single little bit. Had he not destroyed the forum, changed the server, screwed and betrayed all of us, then none of this would have happened. We would still be with outcast, we would not have spilt, we would not have been forced to create a new server, we would still be "friends" (i use it a little loosely) with maximus and kyle, and ATS would still be whole and at peace. The only person to blame is outcast himself. Even kyle and max, although they kiss ass, cannot be held responsible for break up of ATS. It is outcasts burden and now hes gotta live with it, he betrayed and now he must pay the price.

mh... the comparisio doesnt really fit...

as workes stay workers in the end for now and for always... we arent workes and get payd for what we do...

we are very much out of economic and more into politics, and u have to compare it to a low community...

were just a bunch of ppl... and when they want to live together they need to do that on a special way... there are fundamentally 2 ways: let the ppl decide how they gonna be orderd, or let the ones decide who has the catchy and leading personality...
obviously as those founded the community they were catchy, leading persons... so they leaded...
but in time the leaders changed their image and they suppressed the ppl who should be treated like equal persons, as the ppl still stay ppl... only because they are newer in that game, doesnt mean that they are to be treated worse than those before, they werent treated bad when they joined xD
so... to change this circumstances we left the path, were the leading catch persons decide and chose the path were the whole community decides who will have the final call... just to avoid (^^) that any leading person can threat the community again

so this happened to save the community and their values, not ensure our personal fees and payment ^^
the parallels of working conditions are there, but it doesnt really fit... this is a hobby-based community and not a work-based-industry

Well ok xaso point taken, maybe my example is a bit over the top, or not exactly like our situation. But i wanted to make a cast iron reason for why we have made a new ATS, so even if it means i have to make an eccentric reason or a example that doesnt nessasary ring true to our situation i want to make as many reasons as possible to back up outcasts betrayal and our reformation.

The way you have put it, despite the fact it is probably more true, sounds slightly more linient and forgiving, could actually give outcast the impression that he is right. I want to solidify our cause.

Phoenix hits on good metaphors here. Now before I go into depth this is all about the personal belief, everyone has a personal belief, some stick to theirs only without any intrest in debate (out, max...) and others are open to argument. If you yourselves can be changed morally then you have no problems with any change, persuasion is the key here, it is what he have epically tried to do with Out to no avail and what we do to ourselves. The most mature members are the ones who can observe their rival's opinions and respect them for it and consider their argument.

Phoenix said: "Imagine that Outcast is the owner of a big company, and we were his workforce, if one day he just decided to piss off without a word to anybody, and left us (his workforce) in the lurch, do you think he could come back and do what he has? Could he hell, there would be totally chaos, the employement rights union would come down on him like a ton of bricks! There would be solicitors going crazy! Tribunals all over the place, people sueing Outcast left right and centre! "

So do you see it like this, where the laws of ownership can be changed. OR do you see us as members of the workforce who have gone on strike and as a result, been fired from the company. Where the owner has the explicit and undisputer ownership here?

My personal belief on the matter is my imagery of a feudal system (Kings etc....think GKE but real), and the history of Richard II. Richard II ran a corrupt and weak state, he was a man ill-equiped for leadership and was eventually usurped by Henry Bolingbroke and his men. I see ATS as A COMMUNITY WHERE THE MORALS AND VALUES ARE BEST AND IMPERITIVE, AND THE ONES UPHOLDING THESE MORALS INHERIT THE CLAN'S NAME. (completely agreeing with Xaso's opinion here) Outcast got overturned and we, the ones who remained active and communal decided to inherrit what we all belive to rightfully ours.

Nick brings up the hammer that hits the nail on the head:

Nick said: "I certainly didn't join ATS thinking that it was a group of about 5 people that happened to have 30 more following and worshipping them for no apparent reason. I joined it for the community that it claimed to be."

Now if Outcast put a message on the ATS forum. Saying a courtesy message that he is the undisputed leader and always will be, that his clan is HIS CLAN and always will be. Then gg mate and no hard feelings, I wouldn't have joined because i would've known what this clan is about. It is 'working towards Outcast' system and any mature guy can see that. But Outcast's error was in not putting this message up. And putting us all under false beleif that ATS was a community of fairplay, equality and non-dictatorship. We were all mistaken and mis-lead into assuming this.

We defend the name and keep the name because we grew up in this clan believing that it was the bonfire of equality and democracy, our integral belief is that the values are bound to the name and us. THIS is why we defend the name of ATS with such ferocity. Because we want it represented how it claimed to be.

Now let me summarize Outcast's position. He cares not of opinions outside of his ATS, only His, Max's, Kyle's, Herny's, Sylba's, Gich's, Ulrich's are of concern to him. I think he GENUINLY believes that we are merely rebels, and because of this beleif he doesn't see the significance of talking with us.

OUTCAST doesn't see things as we do, this is why political discussion is unfeasable.

OUTCAST has plainly showed us (as Max has) that ATS is his little clan to do whatever he wants with, he actually thinks himself as God - the creator, the controller and the King of kings. We cannot talk with him, and like Nick i think his next talk will be just as hostile and possesive as before.

Now do we give up ATS and let them "die under their flag"? (Max's words) - will we let them have the possesion and form a new clan name which ARE the morals? Or do we fight to change ATS into what we want it to be known to all JK2 players.

Xaso is right ATS players have no freedom, no independance, no trust in none but their own members.

Perhaps if Outcast promoted the message, that it is HIS clan and HIS alone. Placing infinite emphasise on the dictatorship that it is then perhaps ill be up for changing the name. Until this happens then no change EVER, because i'll be damned to see the same recruits being brought up with the same beliefs as we have and being just as confused, just as fearing and just as dictated as well all sub-conciously were.

~K.P

Brilliant kernow, worded superbly and better than my arguement! You found the words to back up how we all feel. And it is totally correct. Karma!

kernowPilgrim wrote:

OUTCAST has plainly showed us (as Max has) that ATS is his little clan to do whatever he wants with, he actually thinks himself as God - the creator, the controller and the King of kings. We cannot talk with him, and like Nick i think his next talk will be just as hostile and possesive as before.

Yes im afraid to him we are puppets, for no other uses than to be minipulated, to him we are pawns on chess board, disposeable and unworthy.
He calls us rebels, but we are rebels who uphold the ATS values and morals far more than he and his clan does, which is precisely why we rebel!

We wanted a democracy in which everybody gets a fair slice, not a dictorship in which everything revolves around the needs and wants of it leader and there is no intrest in common good.

Phoenix wrote:

The way you have put it, despite the fact it is probably more true, sounds slightly more linient and forgiving, could actually give outcast the impression that he is right. I want to solidify our cause.

it is... just because the fact, that outcasts still can be part of the community, just not as leader... and max can too...
they did only fail because they were leaders so long, so if they lose that i am ready to make a new start with them, so i wont be so pissed off saying they'd go to hell... at least they found this community, that shows me that they're heart is at the right spot, they are only mislead by their power...
thats why i think a forgiving analysis is better here

thats why i like kernows way of putting it so much, as it leaves all opportunitys open

karma