Tiger's Hello + Wehr's point.

First topic message reminder :

Tiger you should leave Outcast, especially if Ralen is a friend. Outcast is dictator and Kyle is one of his henchman. Join SOL and you will be much happier.

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PS- this is coming from person most banned ever by Outcast.

Thanks Ralen and Tiger. This kid attacked me before in a post a while back. I don't know why he does this. I've been playing jk2 for 6 years. I think I know a bit about the game, the history of it, and deserve just a little respect.

lol wehr. i didnt deny there were more scripters in sol. u didnt even answer on my post.
u only pulled out the hitler card. and that is only cheap.
that was a ridiculous post wehr.
u should rethink who has fallen to propaganda and has the poisoned mind.

Look everyone lets just leave this scipting alone. people script. so they script. we people should not juge them. its there own choice to script. Everone plays differently.

And that hitler situation. just leave that. talking about may affend other people. hiter can be taken very seriosly. So lets not talk about it

Xaso, you are the one that started implying I was immoral.

Xaso said,
"i am not the one who leaves my morals from my real life behind only to be good in a game and then i try everything there to keep my comfort unaffected."

This was not the 1st post in which you attacked me. You expect me to not attack you back when you say this shit to me. I'm not going to put up with it. Go beat on someone else.

I'm done.

wehr. Look there is no point being dramatic. if someone enoys you just ignore him/her

lol. you really want to tell me you cheat in real life, eg in sports, and you want to legalize it? doh. if yes, then i was wrong with that sentence. but still with my argumentation.

every attack towards you was well grounded on evidences you are too blinded to reply.

and none of them degraded you by your originins and surroundings. i only attacked you for what you do and what you say. and not where u come from or who your ancestors were. because THAT is in fact what nazis did... and still do. so beware where you point the finger at.

BTW @ wehr : i mostly use my ks on euro, that's all x).

No comment.

@Tiger I can see you are an honourable fellow and I can see your faith lies with ATS but as you say, when the time comes you may join SoL whenever you want

Thank you.

When the time comes i will join SoL

Wehr wrote:

Ok, if we agree they left it open for interpretation why do you call scripters cheaters? Are you saying that your interpretation is the correct interpretation of jk2 and other people's interpretation is not correct?

No of course not. The term 'script', if you address its meaning technologically, means something completely contrary to the definition that we think it to be. For example a simple .cfg is a script yet (in our books) isn't a cheat. I'm saying that this clan has a beleif and a moral that yes, may contrary to others, but we beleive that NOT using scripts that for example give higher kick damage and speed, is the more morally acceptable action. As for calling it a cheat - Well that is just evolutionary terminology from American 'Fairplay' and rules servers.

Wehr wrote:

I'm saying don't be judgemental of others because they have different ideas of what jk2 is and should be. It's being megalomaniacal to think that everyone should conform to one variant/interpretation of jk2.

Yes of course, it is not only megalomania but also totally unfeasible to tell the whole of JK2 what to do. That is why we have communites that unite under a particular ideology, the ideology in ATS is shrouded and ambigous, many don't realise that it is Outcastian totalitarianism, however here we try to make our aims clear. It is not meglomania for us to promote our beleifs just because someone else disagrees, and anyway, people come to SoL because it is focused more on the society than the fight. More about fairness acheived through no handicaps or bonuses.

Wehr wrote:

I would also say the creators gave us scripts, by this I mean the ability to script. We didn't hack them. So if someone was born to read minds you would hinder them because they have abilities that were not innate to yourself?

Of course - Haven't you learnt from human nature that something we don't understand we inevitably kill off. Reading minds could be intrusive to someones privacy both personal and govermental - I'd feel sorry for that person because they would be denied many of our luxeries of life.
But in reference to the principle: you don't start JK2 and have the ability to use these things, it's an addition that people use to better themselves against others. Just because you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you have the RIGHT to do it.

Wehr wrote:

So was it ok to round up the jews during WWII becuase they had different religion/race and kill them off? So it's ok to discriminate against scripters because they have diff interpretation of a game?

I would imagine the metaphorical term for killing off jews is banning scripters from the game. We don't in anyway care about a non-SoL's cheats and/or hacks. We do care about how they execute those cheats on our server - We certainly frown upon people who use these things but we don't 'kill them off' - Unless they continually break the rules of our server.

Look at it like culture difference, Saudi Arabia think that woman shouldn't show their faces in public, they thing this to be right, we think it to be wrong. Do we go to the Saudi Arabians and expect them to accomodate by our culture? And pledge an abuse of freedom and rights when the Arabians execute us for showing our woman in public? No of course not - Because we are in their lands, their culture, their way of living. It is the principle to accept another groups way of living - Do I go to my friends house and expect them to live by my living standards? No. It is the same with servers and clans in JK2.
Now I can see your argument Wehr and I can understand it, it is a viable and good argument - But it just goes against my (and SoL's) moral conduct. There is a huge ideological, cultural and philosophical difference between people who use scripts and cheats and people who don't.
We are all entitled to our opinions, but unless the majority of the clan decide what you think (I day I hope will never come), SoL will always be against scripts like a KS and other cheats.

~K.P

Kernow Pilgrim wrote:

@ Tiger - Hopefully conversations like these will help you to see at least that freespeech is allowed and the varying attitudes and arguments of SoL and non-SoL.

What do you mean. i dont understand

Thank you.

Like i said before i will join when the time is right.

Untill then Keep a space open for me please

Kernow Pilgrim wrote:

I'm saying - Hopefully by reading these posts by Wehr, Xasomur and myself you can see the many different worlds of JK2. It is good to gain multi-perspectives. Also hopefully you can see that not ALL people who use a KS or other cheats are horrible - Wehr is very intellectual and has morals he stands to. Just like us.

but i hope you can also see that some ppl have arguments and they are waterproof. other ppl just have points, that cant be defended if you go into the depth and in the end there comes some insult that goes under the belt.

Kernow said.

"But in reference to the principle: you don't start JK2 and have the ability to use these things, it's an addition that people use to better themselves against others. Just because you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you have the RIGHT to do it."

The above is incorrect Kernow. When a person is born they can't walk but in time they can. They have the ability because they were born with it. It takes time to learn some things, like to walk. Everyone has the ability to script in jk2. But not all learn how to. If you write scripts it takes time to get good at it and it is a skill. Saying all scripts are to better themselves against other is way off too. Scripts are used for many things besides use in offense.

The way I see it people that feel inferior and not capable like to reject things they cannot do. They change the rules to make it easier for themselves and to feel superior again by controlling their environment. Emotes always used to be on in ATS and most other servers. But those got turned off as well. Since I began jk2 probably 90 percent of ffa servers had emotes on. SOL had them on in beginning for months too. But I guess when you are inferior you just shut the shit off. So justify that change. How can you justify admins controlling the emotes on off stuff? I'm not the one changing rules or environment. You will change rules again if something else come along you don't like.

I've been playing on IDBS server lately with no script and lightside. Xaso if you are so great come. I'd be glad to frag your big mouthed ass no script. Ref and Waffle can tell you how it feels to face me no script.

u can pwn me with no scripts i know. nearly everyone does. so why do they use scripts? lol stupid boyz.

wehr, everyone should learn to walk then, eg kick legally, and they should stop using a crutch then.
its no skill, you have to get used to it. a shoe that has to be worn in, is no skill.

wehr wrote:

The way I see it people that feel inferior and not capable like to reject things they cannot do. They change the rules to make it easier for themselves and to feel superior again by controlling their environment.

thats true. now look in the mirror.

It's simply a matter of preference. Scripting is not innately bad, nor is it good. Some people draw the line at certain types of gameplay behavior, others draw it elsewhere. Some people draw the line at external hacks, some people don't draw a line at all. We happen to draw the line at using scripts that allow unhuman speed for kicks. We also draw the line at using emotes offensively; when we enable them it is for the purpose of social interaction. If people begin to use them offensively, we turn them off because that's not how we want them to be used on our server.

Everyone will draw their own conclusions as to why we choose this, but for myself, being inferior at using these things is not the cause, it is a related fact and perhaps an effect. We chose before our use of such things that we did not want them in our clan or on our server. It is easy to understand why people believe scripting and emote offense is cheating because of its unintuitive and arguably unintentional nature. It is harder for people who don't participate in these things to understand why someone would say they are perfectly legit. Neither is correct in an absolute sense, it's just preference. On our server, we've chosen what we've chosen, and there's nothing wrong with that. At the same time, I respect your view on the various ways of fighting in JK2, and I'm not going to tell you to stop doing it on servers that allow it based on some moral ground.

It's simply what we've chosen, and I don't think the choices we've made are illogical. Just not your preference, Wehr. Wouldn't you agree?

Kernow said.

"But in reference to the principle: you don't start JK2 and have the ability to use these things, it's an addition that people use to better themselves against others. Just because you have the ability to do something doesn't mean you have the RIGHT to do it."


arn't people able to do slashs when they start jk2 ? are they able to chain run + blue stich ? are they able to do yellow dfa ? Are they able to do st ? are they able to do tpk ? are they able to strafe jump ? are they able to do a simple kick ? are they able to gk ? are they able to drag ? and ........

The obvious counterpoint to that is to simply say that you are not provided with the controls to do that when you start JK2, and you cannot create those controls by using the in-game menus. But beyond that, none of the controls that you start off with chain multiple commands together, and even if you bind new commands to keys, scripting will always be set apart from other binds in that it uses your computer and the game engine to accomplish a fighting feat that you could never achieve yourself. There is a distinct difference, it's just a matter of whether or not you believe you should draw the line at such things.

Xaso just has me inflamed guys. Lucky my gf is over. I've been posting on my laptop and she's like wtf are you doing.

Kernow said,

"Obviously my post was in reply to the metaphorical ability to be psychic and mind read as Wehr used the metaphor, something that is unique and un-natural. These abilities, just like cheats are out of game - ie. out of our world. There is distinct difference between something that is learnt naturally and something that is learnt out of self-inqusition."

Oh you mean out of our world like teleport. Teleport is au natural.

I do feel that when ppl pay for a server they have right to set it up the way they see fit. But SOL was setup with emotes. After 2 months people that were getting their ass kicked by me were always crying to the admins. Then the rules changed. I don't like it when people change the rules becuase they can't handle a player. It happened to me in my old clan OBS. I raged the shit out of the leader, Bliad NU and I believe Moph who is now in SOL, one day and the next day I come in and rage is turned off. ATS always had emotes. You guys were ATS and when things carried into new server you had emotes. There are defenses to emotes. Nibler is good at defending them and he never cried. But instead of people learning to defend emotes they just cried and then they got turned off. Some of best fights I ever had in jk2 were with Blizzy with emotes on. You people are missing a lot and I think you are ignoring much fun of what JK2 has to offer. I don't like game changers.

I also don't like being labeled a cheater by ppl that have only played like 1 yr. and come from an inverted clan where Outcast was the leader. You are not JK2 GODs and you don't know everything about the game. Even if you think you do.

I should add I was in o.o. For people that are too young in ATS or SOL, o.o used to be a defender and aid ATS. We helped protect the server til Outcaset started banning the shit out of people. Then Azzy and Outcast got into a big fight over the banning, and how to run the server. It all came to an end and Outcast banned anyone wearing o.o tags in his server. After all this I have to listen to some young punk who knows shit about jk2 tell me I'm immoral and to look in the mirror. You're out of your f'kin mind kid.

wehr, you wanna tell me you are god of jk2?
because we never do, we just want scripters to feck off, because we think its a cheat. in fact you are HERE, we dont come to YOU.

we set up emotes when the server started for the social interacting. no for fighting. sure, you can learn a good emote kick and a good sit kick. but you are abusing the emote that wasnt set off for this. when you come to our server it is our rules to follow, as it is someone elses rules to follow when we'd come to other servers.
but i tell you why we think its illegal: a kick was designed to do about 20 dmg. not 50. you are just using the emote kick in order to get an advantage through a bug, a bug that was added to the game when emotes where added. you should learn to kick appropiately. if you can, so why do you exploit the emotes? same counts for sit kick.

and i had a big lmfao as you said you hate game changers. so you hate ppl that created the mods and the emotes and the ks. doh. you REALLY should look in the mirror.

wehr, its so fine that you are here for long time and can nice tails. but it doesnt change the point. truth can be told by a grey haired 80 years old wiseman, or can be told by a teenager. it depends on what they say. and what you say is contradicting and full of arrogance, and what i say fits and is full of arrogance too. so, trying to be more arrogant than me wont help you, you have to make ur argumentation fit.

or you simply stop to keep your world in shape and you listen to nick, who gives you the possibility to keep your (flawed) opinion.