Osama Bin Laden is dead woot

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Obama 1 - Osama 0

Its very good that they killed him because no more war

Lol there so dedicated to closing topics it's like they got nothing better to do. Ex: "Ok this over? Can we close this topic now?" ROAR get a life mahahahah. In reality there are rare situations in when a topic should be closed.

Phoenix wrote:

Guys do yourselfs a favor and get rid of this ridiculous censor! Its immature awesome fly a kite pro cos King of Burger King get mad when somebody owned and pwned them. Its online gaming for chirst sake, just loose the censors and grow up guys, even Nick said he wanted to loose the censors.

PHOENIX, I HAVE NEVER AGREED WITH ANYTHING MORE STRONGLY (despite the difficulty in understanding, which proves the point more)

I just tried to hit as many censors as i could thats why i dont make sense

lol my topic I start has gone to 7 pages mean

Yeah everyone has there views which makes us human

Remember the comment about how no one is spamming? Well I'm pretty sure that censors on the forum have nothing to do with Bin Laden. If a topic about censoring wants to be discussed then make a new topic.

if thats true, and it doesnt change anything if he is dead or not, then there was no reason to kill :S

It was not simple retribution. The man was still a threat to Americans. This is complete nonsense. He was involved in planning, command & control of attacks against Americans. Dumb comment.

Xaso, I've thought a lot about everything you've said and I think you are a complete idiot. Germans just sit back and think the civilized wolrd we in which live was free, without sacrifice. Germans do not participate in defense of our civilization as they should and do not appreciate all the past sacficrices that gave us the freedoms we enjoy today. Germany is like a big leech. You just suck but don't contribute. For a kid in a country that put jews in ovens you have a big mouth. I find most of your posts completely reprehensible. I've also thought back to when I was 15. How 9/11 attacks effected myself and my classmates. I remembered seeing video of people jumping from buildings to their death because they were being burned.

F U Xaso,

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wehr wrote:

For a kid in a country that put jews in ovens you have a big mouth.

F U Xaso

obviously all your thinking was in vain.

for all the incredible crimes osama and his organization comitted the world is blessed that osama's direct influence has ended.
But still: it would have ended also if he was captured instead of killed. either of both would have been sufficient for getting him out of business.
The only difference is: one option would have been morally and legally right but the other one would give you the revenge for what that guy did.
You gave human rights and morals for revenge, and you vest it with questions of security and with details from the operation itself.

America is making war in many countries and they kill alot of ppl. in Iraq between 30000 and several hundret thousands of civilians were killed. most likely between 60000 and 80000.
In Afghanistan about 3000 civilians were be killed every year.

The USA is not innocent, and is not worthy to judge about the life of someone. if you call osama bin laden not worthy of a trial, not worthy of his rights, the usa isnt as well.
If you say, that in war there are no crimes, then it would explain the death of osama... and it would explain the death of all those civilians... but wouldnt it also explain the death of 3000 ppl in the twin towers?
youre in war with them, ofc. but if their murders of us american ppl are murders and crimes, then the murders commited by the usa, should be seen as such too. Only because it hit the usa, it doesnt make the loss greater. a human life is a human life. is it the life of an iraq man, a man from afghanistan, from pakistan or from anywhere. No life is worth less than others.
But if its about the death of innocent ppl, the usa isnt better at all. numbers talk for itself. but no-one cares for them.

If the death of 3000 innocent americans is worth a war without regards to human rights and international laws, then i am sure that the death of 60000 iraqui civilians and the death of 3000 afghanistan civilians is worth a war without regards to those things as well. and it would explain the revenge al-qaeda took at 9/11... and it would explain the revenge on osama.

and this is eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. this is middle ages. and it will leave us all blinded and toothless.
bless the human rights and international laws there is something better than revenge and killing.

im glad germany learned its lesson from ww2 and is keeping itself out of unnecessary killing.
the usa goes on with it and goes on and on and thinks they do so right with it, and they think that they are completely innocents and that they thus can decide about other one's lifes.

im ready for your next attack out of your hurt pride and pure arrogance... but that will only prove my point. you cant make war, neglect the institutions of civilization and still claim to safe those institutions. the only thing the usa is doing is making in popular to justify actions by power and not by human rights...

@Xaso

It is not eye for an eye. Osama was active member of an organization still plotting attacks against the USA. When we killed him it was an act of war against a commander in an organization trying to kill Americans, and other nationalities. If you don't see the difference bewtween a simple gang murder on the street and kiling Osama you are a fool.

In Iraq the UN had passed numerous resolutions against Iraq. We violated no international law when we went in there but you ignore all this and just spout your ignorant dogma with no supporting evidence. I already posted a link to all the UN resolutions that Saddam violated. The USA was not the only member in that coalition either, for Gulf 2. Saddam was responsible for the deaths of over 1 million people. You're so ignorant you don't think to realize how many more deaths he would have caused over time if he remained in power. Your thinking is very short sighted, ignorant and foolhardy. Germany did not vote against the USA going into Iraq.


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i didnt stress that the war in iraq was bad. i said the death of thousands of CIVILIANS is. and it still goes on.

and if you say an unnecessary killing is an act of war, and as such ok, then you call the holocaust ok... and you call me the nazi...
ppl should have demanded the capturing of osama (which would have prevented him from planning more terrorist acts, as this is what u care about right? its not the revenge, is it?) instead of demanding the assassination.
and obama should have went for a capture, despite what ppl want, because its the right thing to do. a killing should have only taken place, if it would have been inevitable. who knows if it was, doesnt change the fact, that the reaction and the explanation of the operation is not right. ppl are happy about revenge, and they are ready to sell human rights for it.

War is bad. The USA was a pacifistic country before WWI, and WWII. We found that being a pacifist didn't make the world safer. To the contrary, Germany and Japan's actions in destabilizing the whole world made the USA permanently rethink our pacifist role. That is why we are more proactive now. We measure the short tem vs. long term possible effects of inaction. This is something that Germany is failing in big time (e.g. Libya). So in Libya you think it's ok to just let a leader go in and massacre his own people. The Germans do. Be proud of that. Just like germans thought it was ok to annihilate the Jews.

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Xaso are you trying to say Bin Laden should have been left alive? No way mate.
And i cant see the point in giving him a trail, if your going to kill him anyways. You say thats a human right, but to me thats just prolonging his fate, which is pointless. Also, as far as im concerned, if you interfer or take another persons freedoms and rights, then you put your own in jeopardy. Those who commit these evil acts, where they actually take peoples right to be alive, are not entitled to any human rights themselves in my view.

Such acts create unimaginable devastation, the kind you cannot empathise with unless you were there. He tore millions of people's lives apart forever, such damage can never be recovered from, not materialisticly with the damage Bin Laden did, nor psychologically where he murdered thousends of people ripping familys apart.

He does not have any human rights in my view, he should not have had mercy shown to him, and im pleased the Americans didnt.

Even as an inactive member of Al Qaeda (which he most certainly was the last few years), Bin Laden could still have had major influence on extremist muslims. Whilest alive he is both mascot and a rallying point for other would be terrorists. To them, he is a massive influence and an idolic symbol, spreading hatred of the west and brainwashing people to do his bidding.

To kill Bin Laden on sight, was the right decision in my opinion.

wehr wrote:

Just like germans thought it was ok to annihilate the Jews.

Lol non of the Germans thought it was right to kill jews, only Hitler and his minions thought that. The rest of Deutchland had no choice but to obay.

*spam*

@ wehr

pacifist?
since war of independece:
1801-1805 First Barbary War
War of 1812
1813-1814 Creek War
1815 Second Barbary War
Somewhen between 1814-1819 First Seminole War
1832 Black Hawk War
1835-1842 Second Seminole War
1846-1848 Mexican-American War
1855-1858 Third Siminole War
1861-1865 American Civil War
1877 Nez Perce War
1898 Spanish-American War
1899-1902 Phillipine-American War
1917 Entry into First World War

And Countless military operations and expeditions all over the world... maybe naming the US participation in the Boxer Rebellion in China, Moro Rebellion and Expeditions like the Korean Expedition or the Fiji Expeditions...

You can't call America a pacifist nation, to no point of its history.
you can't call Germany a pacifist nation neither, not even now. we too have soldiers in Afghanistan. Though that party lost the upcoming elections, thanks to the declaration of the Opposition to stay out of the Iraq War.

And i have nothing to moan if a resolution is performed, and as long as everyone is following international laws and respecting to human rights. because war is always a threat to these and its a tough question if there is a difference between the bombardement of gadaffis palace or a operation to assassinate him.
But still its funny, that the usa isnt only assassinating gadaffi like they assassinated osama... they keep following performing the resolution of 1973, instead of entering the war and stop the humilation of the libyan people? Why are the laws so important THERE? no one cared for it after the assassination of osama bin laden... But justice is blind. she woulndt make any difference... But Justice doesnt seem what the usa is performing. Its the arbitrariness of the us government.

Wehr wrote:

So in Libya you think it's ok to just let a leader go in and massacre his own people. The Germans do. Be proud of that. Just like germans thought it was ok to annihilate the Jews.

lol wehr... this is getting ridiculous. As if you could link that.
Germans dont think its ok, what gadaffi does... but they rather stay out a business, thats not theirs.
And the ignorance towards the massacre of jews was not good. it was fatal. But it were different times, and i cant believe that you cant stop getting back on that...

@ phoe
we've already been through that, you know my opinion, i guess the less provokative and polemic explanation of my point of view is in the other point after nicks comment.
i just think that the respect to the human rights elevate us over the criminals and fatanists. you cant win the war against terrorism, if you start disrespecting human rights. you can win against the terrorists, but the ways of terror, the ways of war, the ways of revenge will surive, and peace cant be instaurated that way.
the difference between the assassination and the capital punishment is the motivation. If you say its the same action, then the motivation makes the differents if the action is a revenge or if its real justice.

I dont believe that retribution and justice are best achived through punishment/death, but by individuals resolve you take away from the experience. Basically "Live well, its the greatest revenge."

So Bin Laden being dead doesnt give as great retribution, as the retribution that will be gained simply by everybody else happily getting on with their lives.

However i do still believe the right thing was done by shooting him on sight. There was no way for the soldiers to know if he was unarmed, he could have easilly concealed a weapon and took a few soldiers with him if he had. You wouldnt be begging for him to stay alive, if it turned out that he was armed and killed a soldier or two before he was captured, that to me, is an unnecessary loss of a soldiers life, simply by taking a gamble because of what human rights says. It wasnt worth that gamble, not at all, in fact, im pissed off that you think it was worth that gamble, to put an innocent soldiers life on the line simply to Bin Laden can have a trail first.

Thats quite callous on your part Xaso, maybe you should be the one to tell the family of this hypothetical soldier who Bin Laden killed, and say to his wife and kids "Sorry your husband/father is dead because I made a decision that allowed Bin Laden time to defend himself because i didnt want to infringe Bin Ladens human rights." Watch that woman slap your face off Xaso.

Im frankly astonished and a little annoyed, that you believe it was worth a gamble on innocents lives, just so you can give the most evil person in the entire world, his human rights. Im pleased they didnt take a gamble, they have done the right thing.

Another reason why he was too dangerous to be left alive, and having a high profile trail, which it undoubtably would be, could rally more sympathy and suppost for him from the muslim extremists. Footage of a trail would undoubtable be released in muslim nations, and i dont think that would be a good thing, it could easily bring more hatred towards the western world. They did the right thing to kill him straight away, a lower profile death, minus all the troubles/repercussions that holding a trail would bring too.

Dont take this the wrong way Xaso, but i think your arguements and your points are totally ridiculous mate.

no you are completely right, though you prove having not read all of my previous posts. i already said: if there was no way of capturing him, and if the danger was too big, what can i do, what can anybody do? nothing.
but what shocked me more was the reaction of the ppl. just like you they are happy that he wasnt captured. they dont even wanted them to try to capture. they only wanted to see him dead.
it would better to wish for seeing him caught to call him over the coals. but they didnt seek for justice. they only wished for revenge. and that revenge went on cost of human rights. this doesnt focus on the act itself, may it be inevitable or not. but honestly: wehr and mereel openly stated that they would sacrifice human rights and laws for their revenge.
and thats the wrong thing.

just don't call xaso nazy, or don't rely him with anything nazys have done.

as i said close this topic since it only causes the harmony between players to break

Xasomur wrote:

: wehr and mereel openly stated that they would sacrifice human rights and laws for their revenge.
and thats the wrong thing.

fly a kite too right, and so would I, and so would you, you just dont think you would. Now lets say Osama has just murdered a member of your family, would you still be so liberating? I think not, you would want to personally break every bone in his body and drain him of his blood, i know i would. And if you say you wouldnt, im not gonna talk to you anymore cos your lying.

Im glad the King of Burger King is dead, and its the fly a kite best way for him. I dont feel a morsel of sympathy for him having no human rights, im glad they killed him.

He deserved worse, especially when survivors of 9/11 can only hear the voices and faces of the thousends of doomed innocent people, screaming in mortal agony, every night before they go to sleep, because xaso, shit like that messes people up for good, and non of us can judge how bad it is, unless we were actually there, and non of us where, so our opinion isnt as relevant as others.

Others who watched people die, others who nearly died or got terribly injured, who watched thousends of people screaming for their lives, others who watched monumental buildings collaspe before their very eyes, engulfing thousends of innocent lives. The people who experienced this, are the best ones to tell of what emotions they have gone though, and what Bin Laden deserves as a result.

He didnt just murder thousends, but he gave them a brutal, horrifying and gruesome end, with long and painful deaths. I watched the footage on TV, watching people jumping out of building and splatting into floor like a cake that had been dropped, watching people getting burned, or smashed to the floor by a collapsing building, and all the time all you can here are the terrifyed screams of the people around you, who are so scared they are going to die.

I watched that on TV and that was bad enough, so being there at the time would be an unimaginable experience. We cant judge what Osama deserved, until we have been their shoes. Alternatively, they could have tortured him into insanity, that too, would suffice.

In my opinion, Bin Laden deseved alot worse than death, he deseved to relive the deaths of every single one of the thousends of men, women and children who died that day, and then relive them again and again. Only then, would you maybe get some remorse, and only when somebody has true remorse, has the punishment been served. Bin Laden was lucky to get shot, the deaths of those he killed were 100x worse.

You arguement is over xaso, everybody should be very satisfied that the murding King of Burger King is dead!

i cant agree on that.
I wasnt in such situation. I never had to revenge the death of someone i know. So i cant tell you what i do, if it comes down to it.
But i can tell you what i wouldnt want to do, from my point of view now: I dont want to kill anyone. I dont even want to hurt anyone physically. sure, sometimes i have hard feelings against someone, but i have alot more justice and relief, if such a person sees, realizes or even admits his or her flaw. and if such a person cant see or admit it, im not interested in such a person anymore. i just dont care for it, as long as he or she leaves me alone.
But physical pain or even death arent things that ever cross my mind. i dont wish it for anyone.

What disturbs me, is that so many ppl can imagine that kind of revenge. i mean, shouldnt it be good and normal, that anyone who wasnt in such a situation, prefers peace and non-violent justice.

it kind of seems to me as if the terror planted the seeds of violence already in ppls minds. and idk why ppl call it good. they should condemn it.

dont call me a liar, but i really dont have any wish to send someone a bullet into his brain, whatever he has done. I just would have loved to see how osama is lead to the judge in chains, and all his crimes would have been shown up and loaded on him and finally the judge strikes with gavel and calls him guilty. that would have alleviated my soul.
this death didnt.

Xasomur wrote:

i cant agree on that.
I wasnt in such situation. I never had to revenge the death of someone i know. So i cant tell you what i do, if it comes down to it.
But i can tell you what i wouldnt want to do, from my point of view now: I dont want to kill anyone. I dont even want to hurt anyone physically. sure, sometimes i have hard feelings against someone, but i have alot more justice and relief, if such a person sees, realizes or even admits his or her flaw. and if such a person cant see or admit it, im not interested in such a person anymore. i just dont care for it, as long as he or she leaves me alone.But physical pain or even death arent things that ever cross my mind. i dont wish it for anyone

I dont believe you. Because like you say, you havent been in that situation, others have. You dont know how you will react until something like that happens, until somebody tries to take something or someone away from you, until that does happen (which wont god forbid) you dont know how you will react.

Whats you have said is, seeing other people you dont know, or seeing violence/terror in other countries, isnt enough to make you hate somebody enough that you want to kill them.

But if it happens to you personally, for all you know, you may act differently, you may hate that person who has ruined your life and and lives of those around you. And you will want revenge on them in turn, you would thirst for revenge so strong, that you would want to kill them. And dont say you wont, because you have already said you dont know how you will react, and even if you think you do know, you wont know for sure, until it happens. Inner feelings can come from nowhere, hatred you didnt you were capable of, is a achive by an human being, especially in times of intense emotion. All those people who HAVE experienced this, they are the ones who hold the best opinions.

Xasomur wrote:

But physical pain or even death arent things that ever cross my mind. i dont wish it for anyone.dont call me a liar, but i really dont have any wish to send someone a bullet into his brain, whatever he has done. I just would have loved to see how osama is lead to the judge in chains, and all his crimes would have been shown up and loaded on him and finally the judge strikes with gavel and calls him guilty. that would have alleviated my soul.
this death didnt.

Have you actually watched 9/11 footage? I mean properly watched it, everybodys footage? Like all the video camera footage of people involved. Ive seen it on TV, and it nearly destroyed me just to watch it then, so imagine how you would feel if you were there. Just watching 9/11 footage, makes me hate Bin Laden past the point that i want him to die, but to the point where i wanted to do it myself! There is no justice possible for a man like Bin Laden, who loved what he did, how knows no remorse, who was the happiest person on earth when he killed them thousands of people. You cant get any justice from a somebody like that in a non-violent way. And you watch that footage over, and watch it good, and see those events actually happening, and tell me that you dont think Osama Bin Laden didnt deserve to die, and die horribly at that. And then take that and imagine you were there, watching people jumping out of buildings, watching innocent people being ingulfed by smoke, watching people die inside a collapsing building, watching people being burned to death, men, women and children alike. Now imagine some of them were your family members, who were dear and close to you. Now tell me that Osama Bin Laden doesnt deserve a horrible and gruesome death, and that he was lucky to have actually been shot, because he deserved worse.

If you say no, he doesnt deserve that, then i perceive you as a being either A) a liar B) weak/pathetic

phoenix, idk what u trying to achieve here.

Phoenix wrote:

But if it happens to you personally, for all you know, you may act differently, you may hate that person who has ruined your life and and lives of those around you. And you will want revenge on them in turn, you would thirst for revenge so strong, that you would want to kill them. And dont say you wont, because you have already said you dont know how you will react, and even if you think you do know, you wont know for sure, until it happens. Inner feelings can come from nowhere, hatred you didnt you were capable of, is a achive by an human being, especially in times of intense emotion. All those people who HAVE experienced this, they are the ones who hold the best opinions.

You make it sound as if i will seek for revenge. but as we agreed on that we cant know, we should stay with we cant know. it would surprise me if i did. and it would surprise you if i didnt.

and 9/11 was as big in our media as in all media all over the wordl. and that every year again and to any date that had any link to that day. I saw all those videos and pictures you saw. why cant you just believe me when i tell you that i dont believe in an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth... i just dont believe in revenge, and i dont believe in killing. i dont believe in acting in outbursts of wrath. Those things are the primitives of the human nature. I do believe the great achievements of mankind: philosophy, law, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, human rights, democracy and peace.
For all the things i do believe in, doesnt contain killing and revenge and you cant believe in these ideals and still prefer the execution of osama bin laden like that. if it was an execution or not in the end, but you cant prefer it.

remember that i didnt list justice there as the things i believe in, because this word is abused too often, and the meaning of that word is not universally valid.
There is no justice on earth that can explain 9/11. thats why an execution doesnt bring relief to me. It would only bring relief to me, when i see the things i believe in being uphelt and respected, even facing such a big injustice.
The ideal of justice is blind and fair. the world isnt like that, and any act of self-justice makes it worse. trying to make the world as just as possible we cant bear ppl or countries comitting self justice. if its osama, who does justice in the name of his perverted view, or if its obama who does it in the view of a powerful and mighty american... in the end its self-justice. the only body that can judge in the name of humanity and mankind is a court-martial

we agree on many things, such as there is no justice for what osama has done, but still you prefer that primitive revenge. i try to strive for better. dont call me a liar for that. and dont call me weak or pathetic for that.