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 thereferee's so called scripts

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TheReferee///



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PostSubject: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 2:35 am

First topic message reminder :

alright sol ppl first off im not trying to get unbanned or what ever just want some knowledge
alright so scripts
for the past week i have been useing my scroll wheel to kick ppl
that means i bind kick to mwup and mwdown
not 2x kick
my scroll wheel acts as a space bar
so then would that be called a ks
beacuse all i did is move my space bar to scroll wheel
a ks by your rules is any kick that is above 20/21 mine does 22 because i can scroll faster then anyone can press space bar
but what u guys think of when u think ks is one button that lets u kick im not doing that i have to scroll 2x just like all u guys with the space bar


question looking for an answer
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<Ca>Matt.



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 7:46 am

Space ownsc
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 8:19 am

^Mouse2 owns ^^
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 9:09 am

lol, why does everyone think i've raged? lol

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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 9:31 am

mouse 2 owns, that's all. there's no legit kick faster than it.
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fisTo



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 1:43 pm

mwheel is a script I should know I kick with it sometimes
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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 1:47 pm

L M F A O
REF

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



Ref is the BEST instigator.

w
e
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r
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mereel
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 2:38 pm

Mouse2 Ftw. ^^

Also Nick, you have to set up a command. Just +moveup isn't going to help. That or you got a shitty mouse. XD
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TheReferee///



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 3:30 pm

alright alright lol that i guess answers my main question
i was just wondering
i guess ty for not ragin at me sort of :/ i suppose and mouse2?? really????

and xaso +moveup waiting -moveup still doesnt do the kick xP so much fail in your codding
if u dont know how do do it why post it??? you know what i mean ?????? now wait dont rage dont rage hang on
im just saying dont hate on advice

and ty kernow ^^
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 8:09 pm

So Referee, by lack of coherent or explicit explanation, implies that he did not know what a script is and that he must utilize one for his kick. Topic settled, eh? "thereferee's so called scripts" are so called because they are scripts. Wink

(Mereel, I was giving Ref the benefit of the doubt for the sake of argument by trying the only method that would indeed mean that mwheel isn't a script, which is binding it to +moveup, just like other jump keys; I didn't expect it would work Razz )
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Ferret
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 9:37 pm

...

I know how this works. Just logical thinking. Instead of a normal Kick script you bind it to the mousewheel makes it faster to kick. Some scripts bind to a butten like, I dont know, F and than you press it and when ur close u kick but the mousewheel makes you kick faster because the simple fact when both players try to kick and one uses spacebar and 1 uses his mouse wheel than the mousewheel wins. I think because the mind can react faster with the scroll than the spacebar.

I searched on google to find something like that but I couldn't find it.... So this "strategy" must be recent.

~Fer
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 9:41 pm

Ferret, try binding +moveup to the mousewheel. It doesn't do anything.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 10:03 pm

lol ref, you are stupid. you thought i would post a complete mwheel script here. of course i know how to make it work but especially for you, i will post one...
only because i didnt want everyone to try it out and get seducted doesnt mean it wasnt right.

Spoiler:
 

and of course it doesnt kick alone. if you would have read what i say THIS is only one of the TWO jumps you need for a kick...
OH WAIT! you scripted for so long, that you forgot that a normal kick needs two jumps... oh sorry i forgot that.
you of course have to spin the wheel in order to kick.
and i explained that you spin the wheel faster than a human can click twice on the mouse... so fast that you need the wait command.

ref, you are so ridiculously trying to rage me, that i getting too much rofls here. thats why i need to explain everything like i am talking to a 4 year old.
but it fits, aye? a 5 year old explaining to a 4 year old the cheats he is using. nice eh?

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Ferret
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 10:12 pm

NickdeClaw wrote:
Ferret, try binding +moveup to the mousewheel. It doesn't do anything.

Maybe not in-game but by editing the jkmpconfig.cfg or by eVc? or just execute the CFG file.... U could be right though, I don't know much about cheating =\ so I quess I am not gonna do like I know everything of this matter XD.

~Fer
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 10:13 pm

Xaso, I don't think the wait command has anything to do with pressing the button too fast. I think it has to do with not canceling out a current action, like holding jump and crouch at the same time makes you stand instead of doing either. If you don't have the wait command, the two commands cancel each other out and nothing happens. In fact, having a long wait command prevents you from executing any other commands until the wait period is over, which would mean preventing faster jumps.
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Ferret
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 10:32 pm

NickdeClaw wrote:
Xaso, I don't think the wait command has anything to do with pressing the button too fast. I think it has to do with not canceling out a current action, like holding jump and crouch at the same time makes you stand instead of doing either. If you don't have the wait command, the two commands cancel each other out and nothing happens. In fact, having a long wait command prevents you from executing any other commands until the wait period is over, which would mean preventing faster jumps.

The wait command is for the simple fact when you press jump twice fast you don't kick, well not in a simple line as Xaso said and without the "wait 2". It could also be ur reason. I doubt it won't be that reason but the thing is I think the wait2 is not in seconds but in like a small amount like mili seconds or anything so the kick in this matter can be executed properly. It also could easily be ur explantion though Razz.

~Fer
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 10:39 pm

well actually that what you say: cancelling the other command out, is in fact what i say by saying pressing too fast.
but when you look at it more technical, im convinced that a jump is only considered as a jump when it lasts at least a little amount of time, which you create with the wait command. wait1 doesnt let you perform a kick.
and every click of any button is longer than the wait2 command. but mwheel is no button, it just gives a 1 instance info to the game. (so yea, wait command prevents that you click too fast, if you say that it was possible to click a key so fast, that it lasts less than wait2 period)

this having said i can suggest a bit about kick damage. because i dont think it always comes down to the speed of the two jumps alone (so the delay between jump 1 and jump 2) but it also comes down to the length of the jump. so how long does the jump last (=wait2)
this would explain why you can do higher dmg with a mwheel, but never do such high dmg with it, even if you spin it as fast as you can, never such a high dmg like a ks, because a ks has of course the smallest possible period between the 2 jumps.
and i tested this on bots back when i had admin (Sad ) because i tried it with the bots: i set the mwheel and didnt spin it, but i performed the jumps one by one. and then i checked the hp of the bot. it was no clear evidence, but though i didnt spin the wheel i did 20 dmg nearly all the time, though my normal kick dmg is 19, and i rarely did it when i tried it out.
by spinning the wheel you can get a good number of 21 dmg kicks. (besides being able to kick every little hump in courtyard)

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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 11:16 pm

Aaaaah, so much pleasure, sol guys learning how to code a script Very Happy
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Ferret
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Sun 19 Sep 2010, 11:41 pm

Xasomur wrote:
well actually that what you say: cancelling the other command out, is in fact what i say by saying pressing too fast.
but when you look at it more technical, im convinced that a jump is only considered as a jump when it lasts at least a little amount of time, which you create with the wait command. wait1 doesnt let you perform a kick.
and every click of any button is longer than the wait2 command. but mwheel is no button, it just gives a 1 instance info to the game. (so yea, wait command prevents that you click too fast, if you say that it was possible to click a key so fast, that it lasts less than wait2 period)

this having said i can suggest a bit about kick damage. because i dont think it always comes down to the speed of the two jumps alone (so the delay between jump 1 and jump 2) but it also comes down to the length of the jump. so how long does the jump last (=wait2)
this would explain why you can do higher dmg with a mwheel, but never do such high dmg with it, even if you spin it as fast as you can, never such a high dmg like a ks, because a ks has of course the smallest possible period between the 2 jumps.
and i tested this on bots back when i had admin (Sad ) because i tried it with the bots: i set the mwheel and didnt spin it, but i performed the jumps one by one. and then i checked the hp of the bot. it was no clear evidence, but though i didnt spin the wheel i did 20 dmg nearly all the time, though my normal kick dmg is 19, and i rarely did it when i tried it out.
by spinning the wheel you can get a good number of 21 dmg kicks. (besides being able to kick every little hump in courtyard)

Uuuuh, uhm, aw, hm, right....

Well I quess my knowledge of scripts end here XD. Have fun discussing Razz XD. I get a lot of things that evolve computer but not that counts in cheating/hacking/scripts.

~Fer
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 1:32 am

Ah, I see Xaso. I think you are partly correct and I am partly correct. The wait that is there times the duration for which the script executes +moveup; longer durations yield higher jumps. Indeed, the game requires a minimum jump time for it to count, which explains why +moveup does nothing on a button that immediately issues a "keyup" event. But the wait is not there to keep you from clicking your button too fast, because if someone is clicking faster than the wait period, they wouldn't have held down the button long enough for it to register in the first place.

Additionally, no one can reasonably click a button too fast for it to not register. I did some testing, and each second is approximately 250 "wait" units for me. Not sure if this is built-in to the game clock or if it has something to do with packet rate too, knowing how q3 is so messed up. Regardless, for me, "wait 2" corresponds to a period of 0.008s, and there's no way someone is clicking that fast without mwheel, and unlikely even with it. If they ARE clicking that fast with mwheel, it doesn't matter, because mwheel can't be "held down," so it needs the "wait" command for the game to think it is being held down while it cannot receive any more commands (such as a keyup notifier). For comparison, it would take a rate of 125 clicks per second to hit the speed between "wait 2". I click at about 10 clicks per second in saber locks and I'm pretty damn fast, some of the best records are around 17 clicks per second. Even if a world record is at something ungodly like 50 clicks per second, it's still nowhere near 125, which means the "wait 2" is not to keep you from clicking too fast. Even if I were using mwheel, it would have to "click" somewhere between 12.5 and 25 times faster than my fastest mouse click to be "too fast," and while it may approach those numbers I find it unlikely that it meets or exceeds them. (Again, it doesn't matter because a single mwheel bound to +moveup doesn't yield a jump in the first place, so it needs the wait to work.)

Ajunta Pall wrote:
Aaaaah, so much pleasure, sol guys learning how to code a script Very Happy
Nothing really to learn, we all knew how to make a basic script, we're just debating game mechanics.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 4:18 am

yes, the clicking too fast was focussed for the jump. as it means if you could press a key so fast, that it isnt considered as a jump (just as if you have the +moveup only on the mwheel). its not about the frequence you press the keys.

and yes, i tried to find out how long a wait unit is for me. but i couldnt find it out. and if we assume it has nothing to do with the ping or the fps (which makes sense to me, because on either ping or fps the same wait time is nevessary at least) then it goes down to the speed of the clicks, which has something to be like you said.

and then comes the issue of the ping. im not quite sure which influence it has on the information coming from the client goin to the server. but when i played with the fps i saw this: when i put the fps down (<5 fps) then i can press forward and i only sop running after a time. which means that the server executes a certain command as long as the server gets a new command, or gets the info that the command is over. but it needs info.
this means that, with a bad ping (and a bad fps) the server cant take so fast actions, if we assume you COULD press as fast as 250 clicks per sec. so even if you could press so fast you cant perform the same kicks (and the same dmg) with a high ping.
but as a ks and mwheel has a certain waiting time implemented, the ping shouldnt have any influence anymore then (only if you mwheel, it could be that the seperate jumps are longer away from another).
but as long as we cant figure out the exact numbers and times, we cant figure out the xact impact it has...

but the fact remains: mwheel is a script... xD lol

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TheReferee///



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 1:52 pm

lmao u just had to keep going didnt u lol
well this was fun lol
see u guys in another post
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TheGraanulaarian
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 2:40 pm

Locked for topic end Razz
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 6:06 pm

Xasomur wrote:
yes, the clicking too fast was focussed for the jump. as it means if you could press a key so fast, that it isnt considered as a jump (just as if you have the +moveup only on the mwheel). its not about the frequence you press the keys.
Ah, I see. By "press a key too fast" you mean not holding it down long enough. Well you don't have to worry about that either: good luck trying to press your jump button so fast that you don't jump Razz. If the time elapsed is somewhere between 0.004 and 0.008 seconds, you're never going to hold down a button for that short a duration unless static electricity was the only cause of the contact in the first place. If you don't jump, it's probably because you didn't actually press your button lol. But for a script, it is indeed a concern since there is no timed duration for a button press detected, so you need the wait time to emulate it. If you meant the duration for which a script executes +moveup, then yes I agree, but you said "if <strong>you</strong> could press a key so fast," and I propose that it is impossible for <strong>you</strong> (the human) to press a key so fast. Even in lag situations, the last combination of inputs per frame are still detected the same way, regardless of keypress or script; if you walk farther during low FPS, you will walk farther during low FPS using a script to move for the same timed duration.

The summary is this: for any input button that you can indeed hold down for a duration, you can't reasonably hold it down for shorter than the "wait 2" period. This means that in all circumstances a script emulates a button being held down for shorter than is humanly possible, and so in no circumstance does it save and execute an otherwise failed jump.
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wehr



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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Mon 20 Sep 2010, 7:33 pm

Script conversation in Ref's post was funny. Commands back to back in scripts do not necessarily cancel each other out if there is no wait time. It depends on what commands are back to back. wait is duration of a keypress, not sure what measurement is used. some
commands do not necessarily need any time to be effected either, like force_pull.

e.g. s

+moveup; wait 2; +moveup;-moveup
+moveup; wait 2;+moveup;-moveup;force_pull
force_pull;+moveup;wait 2;+moveup;-moveup

scipts can be done via a bind or a file bound to a key:

e.g. s

bind mwheelup "+moveup;wait 2;+moveup;-moveup;force_pull"

or use wordpad you can put commands in a cfg file like so:

+moveup
wait 2
+moveup
-moveup
force_pull

then save file it has to be certain format thought , rtf i think and lets say file name is script.cfg

put file in your base folder then you can bind the file like so:

bind mwheelup "exec script.cfg"

the script convers really showed lack of knowledge in the art of jk2 scripting.

anyone interested in scripting should download this file:

http://jediknight3.filefront.com/file/JK2_Console_Commands_Moves_list;3399

you can see the list of all jk2 commands and get an idea of what the programmers intended the possibilities to be.

w
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r


Last edited by wehr on Mon 20 Sep 2010, 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: scripts   Mon 20 Sep 2010, 7:50 pm

hihi wehr, i feel that your post will be karma - or deleted xD
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PostSubject: Re: thereferee's so called scripts    Today at 5:19 pm

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