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 No freedom of speech in SOL

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wehr



Posts : 708

PostSubject: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 12:55 pm

So much for sunrise of liberty. I just received a pm from Xaso and he deleted a post i made to Boogieman. I guess freedom of speech does not apply in SOL now. And thanks to Ralen for locking a topic that the latest posts had nothing to do with race. Also, I have a big problem with Xaso censuring any of my posts due to our history on forums. Here is a new word for Xaso in english: recusal.

w
e
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r
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:22 pm

I think the impartiality claim against Xaso might be valid, but was the post in poor taste? You have freedom of speech here, but it may be superseded by others' rights. No need to get sarcastic about the clan's values, we're more than happy to reach a solution with you if your claims are legitimate.
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:41 pm

there is no more liberty master wehr.
these guys are becomign ats =))
once ats , always ats...
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:42 pm

According to you Boss, we've been "becoming" ATS for the past 11 months. Rolling Eyes
We sure are slow.
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:43 pm

i was kidding back then.
not anymore master nick =))
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:46 pm

Boss, you are more like ATS than we could ever dream to be.
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:47 pm

Just surrender , before things become worse Smile
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:49 pm

And miss out on a glorious death in defending our values? Not a chance. Smile
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:50 pm

Inocent ppl will die in the crossfire Nick.
Smile))
I am trying to avoid that , just stop banning for weeks to ppl that lame ... =))

and unban me =))
and we can all be friends Very Happy
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:54 pm

darthboss wrote:
just stop banning for weeks to ppl that lame
Why is it that you couldn't articulate this argument in the beginning instead of turning to terrorist tactics?

We are of course open to debate on the application of our policies. Laming is not allowed on our server though, how do you suggest that we deal with it if not banning for periods of time?
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 1:56 pm

I never said dont ban.
I said dont ban for weeks.
I am a kamikaze , I will take you down with me if you dont surrender.

Now jokes aside , cmon lets try to get along , this sux , i m lazy to keep fly a kite you guys , and I dont think you guys enjoy it either.
Banning for weeks isnt a solution why dont you activate autoadmin , and let autoadmin ban for lame.
Instead of giving power to ppl like kernow who can abuse anytime they want.
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:03 pm

Well the issue is that laming is not just attacking someone with chatbox up, it has to do with in-game harassment. In the absence of a complex mod to deal with the various logistical issues, we rely on the human element of admins to evaluate when someone is harassing someone else in-game.

When I've seen you and other Euros claim admin abuse, I've usually agreed with the admin's decision that you were breaking the rules. Perhaps the punishments could use adjustment, but you can't call it admin abuse just because the admin is responding to your breaking the rules.

So, what is really the issue here? Are you legitimately minding your own business when an admin uses commands on you, or do you just feel like you should be able to lame Kernow any time you want?
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:06 pm

The issue is the other way around.
Can kernow / merel / phoenix abuse me anytime they want?
I stopped today until i got banned again Razz
without doing anything...

Now we need to solve this befoer you guys end up getting a server in pakistan Smile
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:17 pm

Boss, you and/or your friends executed an illegal attack on our server. You were not banned until after this attack, I've seen the logs myself. You don't get a 1 day ban for that, you get a permanent ban with the possibility of parole. Razz

How many chances do you expect us to give you for cooperation? As long as you establish <em>and maintain</em> a condition of respectfully communicating with us and not attacking us, we're open to compromise. However, each time you attack us you garner a punishment which is not erased simply because you stop and say, "Ok, now change this this and this and I won't do it again."

If you really want change and progress, you will be constructive in arguments and work with us, as we will you. But if you continue to use attacks as leverage, you are signaling that you are unwilling to cooperate or compromise, and only destruction will ensue. The choice is and has always been yours.
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:24 pm

You're right , I got a little emo yesterday , but it's the first time I attack sol , since you guys exist , and don't forget you guys exist cuz I fly a kite outcast , even if he wont admit it.
Now , to be honest , moving the server to USA wont save you its still trashable , just as O trashed ATS server today...

I am trying not to crash anymore so inocent ppl can play , ppl that have nothing to do with me you sol ats fod etc.
If I crash both ATS and SOL , jk2 will die , if I crash SOL , ppl will go to ats , so i'd rather give up and let u guys have ur shit way than give outcast back his power =))

Now... I am willing to communicate and try to maintain ... I am willing even to try and have my friends stop lame if you guys are willing to do the same and try to see the things from my point of view.

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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:25 pm

wehr posted a personal attack against boogieman that was below the belt. so i deleted it and pm'd wehr he can argue with boogieman in pm.
boogieman isnt even sol, and as you can see anything against sol isnt even deleted xD but i think its a matter of politeness towards an ally that such trash is removed out of public.

and it has nothing to with the freedom of speech: you can tell boogieman whatever you want, and if you have to tell something to the community of sol you can do that too. but that kind of spam has no place in any public forum of this page.

and boss, if you would care for ANYTHING in jk2, you would just leave the game, then everyone would be happier and have less problems. we had. lamers had, because we'd have more time to be friendly to them, time that is wasted by talkin senselessly to you boss. and even you had less problems. because all you do is creating problems...
lol, dont want innocent to get into the crossfire, and the only one fireing is him...

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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:28 pm

I am not the only person banned in the SOL or ATS servers Xaso.
If you wanna be friendly you need to talk first , ban later not the other way around.
I am not firing anymore I stopped , u r firing , I am waiting for u guys to stop too Very Happy
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:29 pm

Occasional laming is fine, it's the harassment that's not fine. I mainly want to protect people who play on our server, not myself or other admins. I am indeed willing to try to see things from your point of view.

What if a new policy is adopted that admins are not allowed to use <em>offensive</em> admin to protect themselves (sleep, kick, ban, etc.) but only to protect other non-admins? Defensive commands like ghost or fly would still be allowed, but not something that affects the lamer.

Do you think a policy like that would help alleviate tension?
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:34 pm

Jo that would be best.
You guys have bubbles for protection too.
And admins can easily do amfly and get out , no need to stay and get lamed.
But when I see kernow staying in front of me saying FIRST WARNING BOSS , its making me kill him , then he comes again no bubble , ofc I kill him again , then he abuses.
Its like a defiance.
Now , we ( me nasty napz etc ) are a bit diff from u guys , we lame , kill each other evc , aimbot , ks , on euro and we've played like that for years you have to understand we cant just stop cuz a guy like kernow comes and says FIRST WARNING BOSS ...
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:37 pm

I understand that you don't <em>want</em> to stop, but you can in fact stop. Just like Kernow probably doesn't <em>want</em> to stop "abusing" you when you lame him, but he can in fact stop.

Still, I and I believe the other admins would be willing to stop punishing for attacks on <em>themselves</em> if you would agree to accept punishments for harassing <em>non-admins</em>. I'll bring this up in the Council.
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:38 pm

I agree dude but there are non-admins that are challenging me , and other to be lamed.
For ex saber down then grip saber down kick , bubble kick , etc.
If you can find a solution to make everyone happy , I will be happy too.
I already stopped... Since this afternoon when I let both SOL and ATS servers back up.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:42 pm

in fact there are only a handful of LAMERS banned from sol. all other banned ppl are laggers.
those ppl who were banned for laming ASKED for it. and they KNEW they were going to be banned, because we TALKED to them. i remember ref, who knew about it and provoked even more. and waffle was the same. not to talk about devy, who just asked for another ban as soon as he were allowed back. its not that we dont talk to them. its that we especially talk to them. and we tried to find a way to make them stop harassing newbies and other ppl that dont want to be destroyed. so those lamers choose: being banned, or restrict themselves to fight ppl that can defend themselves.

something that makes talkin to lamers very hard btw is their overdramatic tune to insults and pigheadedness. you simply ask: "pls stop laming." and you drown in a rain of insults and the lamers lames even more. now tell me: isnt that beggin for a ban? but even the we dont do that. we only ban after we have a flood of complaints on the forum against someone. then we really consider a ban.
any other ban thats occuring is a ban cuz of laggin. or it only lasts 1 or 2 days until someone unbans him.

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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:44 pm

Then why dont we find a way for all of us to live happily ever after.
Jk2 is pretty dead there is no need for so much hate , ban , crash , lag
We're only killing it faster
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NickdeClaw
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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:47 pm

Well we need your help to come up with solutions that make everyone happy since we can only speak from the anti-laming American perspective and not the Euro free play perspective.

If someone saber down GKs you, you are allowed to kill them of course. If someone bubble lames you, you are allowed to try to kill them of course. Ask an admin to punish the bubble lamer, since that is also against the rules.

The issue comes with harassment though; you are allowed to kill people who attack you, but you can't <em>continuously hunt them</em> after you kill them if they stop attacking you. It's harassment and it does terrible things to the player community. We want people to be allowed to stop attacking and ask for you to stop, and then you do in fact stop.

I have adopted the following policy and perhaps it should be made a rule of using admin: If someone <em>attacks</em> you (kick or lightsaber slash, not a quick grip or Force Push), you are entitled to kill that person once even if it is a lame. After you kill them, you are no longer entitled to lame them unless they attack you again. Does that sound fair?
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darthboss



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PostSubject: Re: No freedom of speech in SOL   Mon 29 Nov 2010, 2:51 pm

Jo it does sound fair Smile
And u guys shd get back the EURO server , since a lot of SOL are euros , and they get trash ping in your american server.

There are people ( I saw tht in ats server too ) who challenge you to lame them , then they shed tears lamer.
Or attack you and then in the middle of the fight put saber down and say LAMER.
I think it's our fault too that we get emo , we put too much soul in this game , its just a game after all we're supposed to have fun not do the whole ... terrorism attack Smile
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