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 The Determination

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Xasomur
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PostSubject: The Determination   Tue 22 Dec 2009, 5:35 am

First topic message reminder :

Clan mates, friends, brothers! We are standing at the crossroads. Now it will decide, how ATS is going on. We need you now more than ever. More than a week ago, when the server shut down and the forum was gone. More than back, when we held meetings. More than throughout the elections. We need you now. And we need to stand upright, for that what we really want.

This, my friends, and I am sorry for that, this is gonna be a long long post. But I recommend you all to read it, because it is important. I try to make it most readable as I can. I will make some visual effects and summaries, so that u will be able to pick out the most important parts.

~What happened?~

Last week the server shut down, and the forum were deleted. Outcast was gone. And it seemed he would never come back. We used this opportunity and we made a new start. We put our hearts and our brains together to revive the spirit and the values of ATS. And we did great work. We worked out a new system of leadership, where we all can decide now, where we all share our opinions and our power. We rebuilt a dream.
This is all now endangered to get lost again.
Outcast is back. This morning about 4 am European time he was on the server and invited few of the ATS people to listen to his announcement.
I will now here summarize the conclusion and will take a closer look later on:
  • Outcast is back to overtake the control of ATS again.
  • o.o and fod are going to be treated as enemies again.
  • older members have higher importance and the only voice in ATS.
  • even inactives are more important than newer ones.

And another point I will illuminate later on.
But here comes the hard stuff: Why did he leave then? It was a farce. He never really left. He just wanted to see what happens. “To find out the most loyal members.”


~What does that mean?~
That means several things. That does tell us a lot about outcast. And it tells us a lot about the close future. It tells us that we are on the crossroads.
But I tell you: We are gonna decide which way we go. We don’t have to go where outcast wants us to go.
But step by step.

What would that mean for the clan: It would all go back. It would all happen again. The forum is gonna be set back, the server is. All our work is then gone. All our discussion is then useless. All the visions of a new brighter era are then destroyed.
No council. No public votes for the next admins and moderators. No representatives in the council. Only those “old” ATS in council. And because they are all inactive most of time, it’s only Outcast in Council. He will say who is gonna be banned. And he will ban many friends of ATS and he will even ban further ATS. Like Dudeman or Referee. His attitude will make that people cant stay in ATS, like all those people who left before and came back now. We will get in conflict with o.o again and with fod. We will all again live in fear, without being able to say our true opinion, because we are afraid outcast will do something against us. And you, as a newer member, will always be a member of a lower class in relation to those oldies.

But this isn’t all. This recent occurings tell us a lot about Outcast. And they convinced me finally and totally that this is nothing we need or can bare.


~The Method~
Let me first say some few words about that what Outcast did: He shut the server and the forum down… to see what happens? Who is loyal ATS?
Its like throwing a baby into the djungle and if it survives its good education? My question is, who is loyal then? The parent, leaving the child in the wilderness?
This wasn’t a step a leader should go. It is a sign of megalomania, doesn’t know his own borders, what to do, what is allowed and when to listen to the members needs.
This was a prove that Outcast finally is out of control! He didn’t have to leave. Not shutting all down. Not leaving us the server and so on. Now coming back like nothings happens is mad. So clear and easy is it. It is mad.


~The announcement~
Let me come net to the discussion we held yesterday, which was no discussion.
He first talked hours to Vort who played the middle man. Than me and kernow were added. And Outcast started to explain. But he was not coming to the point… we only discussed over minor things.
Like that he doesn’t like ajunta, and that he had to ignore him and herny…
The most important thing is, beside the content I listed above, his way of treating us. He ignored us. We listened to him and tried to be diplomatic. But he didn’t take any contra. We told him, we made up a new system. He just said, that the ranks stay the same. I said, that the ranks are same, we have new system for ATS in general, and he said, that the ATS values stay the same. And as I finally said, that we have a democracy now, and not longer one leader he just said that I was confused. He was ignoring everything me and kernow were saying. And this is what he does: Ignoring all those arguments against him and getting his head through.


~Generally~
Of course the recent happenings aren’t the only reason why we definitely have to stick to the new system.
As I said: this is just the top of the mountain. Outcast is ignoring the members, especially the newer ones, since long time now. Many people left ATS because of that. Because of Outcast. And it will happen again, as Outcast seems to get more and more crazy.
He also said, that he doesn’t care about the amount of people for or against something. But he misses. If all those, who are ATS, are against him, he definitely has to think about it. He cannot say 2+2 = 5 and saying, that’s right, doesn’t matter what the world says. Maybe it deserves respect, but it does not deserve leadership, as a leader has to see clear. And he doesn’t even see his own members.
Next point: He says, he wants only fun play in jk2. And as u see people leaving ATS because they haven’t fun anymore, and people hiding their opinion because of fear, there is no fun too.


~What to do now?~
Outcast is a threat for the new system and the spirit of ATS, when he is leader again. ATS will be like a zombie again.
We have to stand together, clarify what we are belonging to. To ATS… and not to Outcast. We have to stay here on this forum and on our new server. So take this great news: The new ATS Server will be there very soon. (And we still have the fod server, they are supporting us in not getting ruled again by Outcast)
U may try to talk with outcast, but u will see that he is ignoring your arguments, and that he won tlisten to u, and he will only try to get u on his side. so keep in mind what u want, dont lose ur ground!
We are all sorry that this ends like this, so violently, but if he would just has left we could have honored his image... but as he now tops his old megalomianac attitude. And as we cannot talk to him we gotta do what we can, and when it is just ignoring him.
He is praising that every action has its reaction. And he was always the one to react in his own way to thing ppl around him did. Now it is time to let him see and feel that his actions have consequences too.


Outcast is back. But we wont let him steel ATS.
We are standing at the crossroads. And now its our time to decide.
And to those who still entertain doubts: just read the other topics. how the system is working... and the argues with sylba. This new era is what people want and need. You will finally see.

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Last edited by Xasomur on Sun 27 Jun 2010, 9:52 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 3:51 am

Wait wait,

Xaso, appologize for your insult, now
herny, post here not to tell shit, if you post here, it's to argue, as we do

Black night, i havn't been banned from ats, i left by myself.
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 3:53 am

er... which insult??

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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 3:56 am

Xasomur wrote:
er... which insult??

shut up
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DoZeR~



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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 3:57 am

okey guys enjoy your new clan bye i will stay in ATS Wink
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 4:02 am

lol shut up is no insult... ppl use shut the fuck up like it was nothing... i didnt even say the fuck... so shut up was as nicely as it could be Wink

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lusantlueg
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 4:18 am

Ajunta Pall wrote:
I came back for 2 reasons :
-What made me leave has gone, so why should i stay away ?
-The clan wasn't in perfect health, so i came back to help my best.
And btw, you are not happy that i am back just because i defend ats rights, so as says xaso, keep dignity to yourself. Don't find bad reasons.
+1

BlackKnight wrote:
Herny..plz stop saying that we come back for convienience...i never left, ajunta,lusant and the other unjustified banned members never left they just where cloaked as i, cause Outcast hated us for no reason... always arguing we scripted,hacked or lamed but he never got proves of anything.. u better look out cause if Outcast comes back maybe one day u will be one of the banned...and dont tell mee he wont do that, cause it was the same i thought and look at me banned for bieng suspicious of bein o.o-Kell...ask for proves u will never find em.

The point is .. we are here not for perosnal benefit..as u can see everything has been done taking everyones opinion with polls ans topics...
+827373920103872810101
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 5:17 am

Herny, you can choose your way, but don't tell shit.
If you don't agree, it's your problem, but all posts arguements that have been told until now show well that ATS is us, not the trash leader who fucked us up.
So you go to outcast, not to ats, as ats is here.
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SyLba



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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 6:18 am

well i have not seen any ATS speak like you speak AJ you need lessons as others also.Doing what you do will just affet you badly...
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 6:44 am

Lol, others just don't speak.
But listen to blacknight, xaso, nick, me, and more.
And whatever you see, i just tell facts : the actual situation.
If i speak trash, it's because look at you, instead of blaming us : you just post some empty sentences, telling that we don't know, we don't understand, we are stealers and else.
Argue, tell us why, tell us what we don't know.
If you do'nt tell nothing, it's because you have nothing to say, you know you are wrong but you are still sticked to your mom, and now you are sheeps of outcast.
You may don't like me because i tell trash, but i don't fear to tell what i think, and that's why i know that you are wrong thinking that ats belongs to a hitler more than to its members.
So now, tell us, at least for once, a GOOD reason. A real post. You see that xaso's first post ? try to do something. Try to show that you are right and us wrong.
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DoZeR~



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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 6:50 am

beacuase you are stealing ATS you didnt make ATS and your are jsut a member

hmmm i would like to steal your house cause i dont like you as owner of your house so i wanna be the owner of yourse house (Probably you will not liek that)

i hope you can UNDERSTAND and if you wanna have a new clan like ZoF im agree, you were doinga great Job ,but dont take the name of ATS cause is not yourse and you are not the owner you are just part of it.

THAT'S WHY IM SAYING THAT IS STEAL
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:09 am

You don't live in my house, that's the difference. and stop talking about me only, the clan is whole members not me.
And i don't need to make ZoF anymore as what is ATS now is what ZoF was.
And I DON'T take the name of no one, freacking shit, me i am a member among all others.
and also, wtf you both have with me. You speak as i was the new leader, it makes me out of me. I am just a member as you said. So don't think about me, but all members of ATS.
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Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:12 am

herny-JK wrote:


hmmm i would like to steal your house cause i dont like you as owner of your house so i wanna be the owner of yourse house (Probably you will not liek that)


Mmm i wouldnt like to steal my house however im going to use this as an example.

Lets say im the owner of the house however there are other people who live in this house with me(metaphor for ATS members), then if i abandoned this house and fuked everything up for the other people in the house, then they take over the house and start fresh because i abandoned it, do u think it fair for me to just turn up at the house again and say its mine despite the fact i fucked off?

Answer: the other people in the house would be well within their rights to be pissed off and tell me to get fuked because i ran out on them!


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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:13 am

well in other word if you wanna use the name of "ATS" talk with the creators


Supose you are owner of "Yahoo" and Come the owner of "Google" and says get of here im the new owner hope can understand
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Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:16 am

@ herny, people buy out companies all the time at make that company their own, however dispite the fact its now their company they still keep the old company name.

This is exactly whats happened to outcast, hes been bought out!

Example: Volvo are a car company however they have been bought out by ford, however ford havent renamed volvo to ford they have kept it as volvo despite the fact ford own volvo. This is the same as our new ATS.
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:20 am

-.-'
I complete your example phoenix :

All the family lives with his father in the house. One day, the father leaves with all food, and disables all electricity and water in the house.
Then the family makes his best to survive, builds again electricity, and water.
One day the father comes back, while the house is almost up again. He says, Hello, you don't understand, i am again the owner of the house.
That's it, with best metaphore.

The real ats is not what tryed to make it die, but what makes it live. If i remember well, it's not you, neither sylba, neither maximus, neither outcast who came to make everyone stay togethere and build it all again.

Epic fail.
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Phoenix
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:22 am

exactly right ajunta. karma Smile
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Vort
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:22 am

LOL and heres another reason why we should change names! Drama, drama, and more drama. JP =P
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:25 am

that's a wise mind, but you give up, letting them win. We are ats, so we stay ats.
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BlueNinja
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:49 am

Omg you guys are awesome, keep up the good work!! Very Happy
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Kernow Pilgrim
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 7:54 am

Agreed with Aju - Vort i realise you are being incrediably intelligent, and Phoenix and Ajunta's arguments shout down Herny's, especially about the house. Vorts been watchin layer cake! The art of good buisness, is to be a good middle man!

Vort I think in changing clan name it just gives ultimate surrender to our arguments about the clan being everyones! And the changing of name inarguably suggest that Outcast is the owner and leader of ATS.

Now Herny I have my own argument about your house argument. The father generally owns the house, and he has his family; being at the head of the household. Lets say this father is outcast (GRAN PAPI!! xD), anyway the father does have control of the house but of his family? Yes he creates the family but does he RULE them? He GUIDES them! That is all. The family are self-independant and self-controlling.

In relevance to this notice we changed servers? Instead of hackin outcasts server (which i can't do but the point still stands) we got our own 'house' and the family moved there. It happens all the time in real life and its happening now.

Hern you are entitled to your opinion, I respect ure belief and I cannot change it. So please don't try to change ours, as we also, are entitled to our own opinions.

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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 9:09 am

im not trying to change you ker Wink just saying no more but you shldnt use ATS name if you want make something new beacause we are still using it Wink
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Xasomur
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 11:08 am

this is nothing new...
when the sons get out of their home they still keep their name...
but the fathers grew old... the work they've done once is now down... they cant do it anymore... time spoiled them... lazyness gets in their bones...
the son now carries the fathers ideas back into the world
Wink

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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 1:12 pm

herny-JK wrote:
im not trying to change you ker Wink just saying no more but you shldnt use ATS name if you want make something new beacause we are still using it Wink
You're right herny, WE are still using it. Wink

And anyway, changing something doesn't mean you have to rename it. Earth looks very different now than it did 1,000,000 years ago. Its "owners" have changed a few times, and yet in retrospect we still refer to Earth as the same name. And its "owners" will continue to change, and we will continue to call it Earth.

That being said, I still think we should have an honest discussion about what to do about our name, since there are respectable arguments on both sides.
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Ajunta Pall
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 1:58 pm

NickdeClaw wrote:
since there are respectable arguments on both sides.

Ok, so why doesn't herny argue a bit ? I am bored of empty posts, accusing us as stealers, liers, and else.
We all argued enough here, so let them try a bit.
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BlackKnight
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PostSubject: Re: The Determination   Fri 25 Dec 2009, 2:15 pm

That is a good point herny..but u forget something..if leave my house and go to another place(i sold it abandon it etc..)..then a person wants that house cause i left it alone...i just can come back and tell the new person that is leaving there to give me my house back if a got another one and a left that myabe i sold it...abandon it...bur u can call steal something that has no owner...
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