Laffy banned YeT Again By the abusing sindwinder

First topic message reminder :

This stupid kid just never learns. I was banned again by the abusing sind/lucifer.

I guess it is for laming in temple, but everyone was laming in temple. SO I just joined in. And 2 minutes later I get banned. This kid already used admin abuse on me tons of times and noone is doing anything about it. Exile this mongrol, and unban me.

EDIT: Also after he banned me, he banned PWN. He abused him, then banned also. So unban him too.

@ Laffy True pros aren't seen with great skill.....but instead great character. Sure it pays to be good at what you do but it doesnt excuse you from using manners. So its great that you have 6 years of JK2 experience....but it may take you 6 more to fully understand how others would want to be treated....and I pray that you will learn that lesson.

I need general consensus before I make a poll, or else there's no point. This is how we always do it. Let me know your thoughts first.

PWNawan wrote:

how would you meet them if the server was locked? [:

^


them = nice people.



this is stupid, fellas. timmy, you're like, 4 years old, stop trying to act like confucious, and let the big boys talk. you keep calling people names, but seriously dude, it makes you look childish. i ADMITTED TO LAMING IN MY INITIAL POST. so calling me an idiot makes you look like a goon. on the server you talk crap to me, and i put you in your place. here in the forums, all i can do is be diplomatic, and ask that you watch your mouth and try to act your age.


Nick, it isnt like we enjoy coming on these forums and starting these wars. all we want is to play. if you want to lose server traffic and eventually kill whats left of jk2, sure, embrace admin abuse. all that will cause is the good people leaving for other servers, and the bad(new) people either getting banned cause they lame, or getting tired of it like we are. we dont wanna fight here on the forums, we wanna play. your server DOES indeed provide us with a place to stay. ruin that for the players, and slowly, jk2 dies off. you know its close at hand, dont ruin it for non SOL members by being rediculous in your practices.

Ok listen up jerk off cause im gonna say this one time. NO ONE GIVES A FLY A KITE ABOUT YOU. YOU BEAT A FLIPPING RED SPARK RECRUIT!!! SO WHAT?? YOU SUCK!! The amazing part is that even though im right your only excuse is "let the big kids talk". Oh I didnt realize you were suddenly old enough to order off the grown up menu!! Btw ur 19....you'd think that you wouldnt be playing computer games for a guy as "mature" as you. The people over 20 here in SoL admit to their immaturity....so quit acting like a b*tch and ACT YOUR AGE! Also you "diplomacy" epically fails.

Thats all i got left im done.

PWNawan, we retain more players with our bans than without them. We ban people who ruin the experience for others. New players will quit JK2 if everyone is beating the shit out of them. So we don't allow laming.

We've been "abusing" since we started. We're the most popular JK2 server. There's a reason for that. There's also a reason Euro servers are dead. Laming is allowed, and new players do not want to experience that, it's not as fun for them.

We want everyone to be able to play on our server, but we require certain rules to be followed so that the most number of people enjoy themselves. People abuse these rules, and we try to use good judgement in punishing them appropriately. Mistakes get made, but most decisions are good. That's why our server is so popular; if most of our decisions were bad, it would not be popular.

People such as Boss and LaaaF come to our server with a sense of entitlement. They believe that since they can connect to our server, they should be able to play the way they would play as if it were their own server. The problem is that it is not their server. It is our server. It is a service we provide to the public, conditional upon their following rules. We grant no rights to the clients who connect to our server, and it is within our right to do whatever we want with the server because it is ours. Playing on the server is expressing explicit consent to whatever administration exists on it. Moreover, you do not have to play on it if you do not like the service we provide to you.

If you believe the "abuse" that is so rampant in our server will make us unpopular, do not play on our server and watch us die. I insist, however, that this "abuse" is not what will make us die. It is people like Boss and LaaF, who ruin the game for far more people than we ruin it for, who will make the game die.

If you want the game to live, you have to cater to the majority. The majority want respect on the server and want to have fun without getting trashed, and so laming is against the rules. As I said before, we try to use good judgement, so in many cases people will not be punished for laming because it depends on the circumstance whether someone is being disruptive or not. Other times, admins use poor judgement and make poor decisions. This will always happen if there are admins because people make mistakes. But the number of mistakes that admins make is far less than the enormous mistake that veteran JK2 players make in trashing newbs, forcing them out of the game because it isn't any fun. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's MUCH less evil.

Tim Skywalker wrote:

@ Laffy True pros aren't seen with great skill.....but instead great character. Sure it pays to be good at what you do but it doesnt excuse you from using manners. So its great that you have 6 years of JK2 experience....but it may take you 6 more to fully understand how others would want to be treated....and I pray that you will learn that lesson.

cMon now pro, you may hate me, but you gotta love my character. =]

What you're saying is if someone lames they have a bad character.

99% of good players lame. Don't you get it? Even in you're clan, even the few decent-average players in you're clan lame. Everyone else just complains.

Thing iZ with great character (and intellect) comes skill. Any old player with skill would side with me on this laming argument. It's been debated since the beginning of JK2, the people who would usually complain about laming then, were skilless, and the proz were just pro-laming. However problem now is less proz, more newbs, more complaints.

Nick , I think you should reconsider what you said.
I never came to SOL server and started raping noobs.
I come there to play and fight people that are good at this game , not total noobs.
But there are noobs that are just looking for it , people that attack you , and when they see they cant win , they shed tears lame.
They grip , drain , kick , then if you kill them , they shed tears for admin help.
And admin... abuses.
Yes , I do agree with what you said , about newbs , protecting them and also protecting the server , and the reason euro is dead.

Boss, I've made those bans. There are plenty of times when bad players are minding their own business, and a good player repeatedly lames them. It happens ALL. THE. TIME. Denying it is just lying through your teeth. The vast majority of bans we make for laming are when people are being so disruptive that a majority of players wants them banned. It is not a case of some newb attacking you, you kill them, and then an admin bans you. That almost never happens. Usually someone starts a fight with you, you kick their ass, then they leave you alone, but you KEEP abusing them. And then you do that to 10 other people too. THAT'S when admins usually step in and make a laming ban.

If you steal admin passwords and unban everyone on the server, including people who were abusive lamers that ruin the game for new players, you are effectively participating in that laming and ruining the game for new players because you facilitate that laming.

I have a question for you nick.
Why dont you ban people who do the exact opposite thing?
Noobs that come and annoy good players , from bubble kicking , gripping , etc.
I've experienced that myself in the SOL server.
People in bubbles killing me while afk.
People with bubbles kicking me while fight.
So why those people dont get anything and the rest does.

Lol nick, the people you banned (including me) were not targetting complete newbs. It's not fun to just start raping some person who dosen't know what a gk is. Why was I banned Nick? O that's right, ganging sind, ya i agree he is a newb, but also a scrub. Scrubz are the people I target, and so do most of the people banned (nasty, merC, etc.).

NickdeClaw wrote:

PWNawan, we retain more players with our bans than without them. We ban people who ruin the experience for others. New players will quit JK2 if everyone is beating the shit out of them. So we don't allow laming.

We've been "abusing" since we started. We're the most popular JK2 server. There's a reason for that. There's also a reason Euro servers are dead. Laming is allowed, and new players do not want to experience that, it's not as fun for them.

We want everyone to be able to play on our server, but we require certain rules to be followed so that the most number of people enjoy themselves. People abuse these rules, and we try to use good judgement in punishing them appropriately. Mistakes get made, but most decisions are good. That's why our server is so popular; if most of our decisions were bad, it would not be popular.

People such as Boss and LaaaF come to our server with a sense of entitlement. They believe that since they can connect to our server, they should be able to play the way they would play as if it were their own server. The problem is that it is not their server. It is our server. It is a service we provide to the public, conditional upon their following rules. We grant no rights to the clients who connect to our server, and it is within our right to do whatever we want with the server because it is ours. Playing on the server is expressing explicit consent to whatever administration exists on it. Moreover, you do not have to play on it if you do not like the service we provide to you.

If you believe the "abuse" that is so rampant in our server will make us unpopular, do not play on our server and watch us die. I insist, however, that this "abuse" is not what will make us die. It is people like Boss and LaaF, who ruin the game for far more people than we ruin it for, who will make the game die.

If you want the game to live, you have to cater to the majority. The majority want respect on the server and want to have fun without getting trashed, and so laming is against the rules. As I said before, we try to use good judgement, so in many cases people will not be punished for laming because it depends on the circumstance whether someone is being disruptive or not. Other times, admins use poor judgement and make poor decisions. This will always happen if there are admins because people make mistakes. But the number of mistakes that admins make is far less than the enormous mistake that veteran JK2 players make in trashing newbs, forcing them out of the game because it isn't any fun. It's the lesser of two evils, but it's MUCH less evil.

Look, timmy, i beat you, and i also beat a lot of other players on the server. i think most would agree i dont suck. once again, you're talking shit and showing your ass.


NICK, i came here peacefully, and i intend to leave that way. all we're asking is that you consider your policy towards other players. the times, they are a changing. there isnt gonna be many new players to JK2, its 10 years old. no, quite the contrary, you should focus on keeping the active players interested. chase them away, and you wont have anything. i would ask that you please keep tim's mouth on a leash, because he isnt helping your obvious cause at being diplomatic. hes pretentious and quite honestly, hes disrespectful.

Boss, it's because you don't complain about it, you just trash them. You take the punishment into your own hands. Newbs can't do that, because they're newbs. So admins do it for them. It's perfectly even.

If you decide that you DON'T want to take it into your own hands and you WANT admin to do something about it, ask them to do something and DON'T FIGHT BACK. We usually don't use admin on someone if their target is fighting back.

You'll find that it might take quite a few bubble lames for an admin to do something though, because it always takes us a long time to start punishing. People get away with a lot of laming on our server, it's us trying to cater to lamers and give them a chance.

LaaF, Sind may have made a mistake, I wasn't there to see it. I'm talking about the majority of cases, such as ones I've witnessed. nastY is a huge lamer, and merC just lagged our server (that's usually why he's banned).

Indeed PWNanan, Tim you should calm yourself a bit. But you are wrong PWN, old players are not the future. They never will be. Old players will always inevitably quit the game. If you cater to old players, you are already dooming yourself to death. You are gambling that there will be so few new players, that catering to old players will DELAY your death; but you are indeed admitting that you will eventually die. I think there are enough new players for it to be more likely to survive catering to them. You might be surprised by the number of new players we get; it seems like there's one every 1 or 2 weeks.

The thing is OLD players dont care about the newbs... because most of them dont remember how it was like to be newb and be raped by everyone.
I do remember , and I try to be nice, but it is true , I do trash people if they come at me .
But I rarely start trashing them if they leave me alone.

i can see your point, but 1-2 new players every few weeks isnt gonna cut it.


and, thank you nick, for agreeing with me. you'll find Tim acts this way towards players on the server as well. he talks all this rif raf about how pro at FF he is, and when someone beasts him, he still puts them down. today, for example, he FF's Lunar)Strain,if and loses, and instead of saying GF, he says "im not impressed, all you do is pullkick."

correct me if im wrong, but is that not against one of the rules in your MOTD?

masterboss wrote:

I do remember , and I try to be nice, but it is true , I do trash people if they come at me .
But I rarely start trashing them if they leave me alone.

ditto.

Well nick, this is the 3rd time in 2 month sind has made the same mistake with noone (you're admins) doing anything about it.

When I first started this game I was constantly playing TFFA. I only wanted to play more, when a good player was on, who I would constantly fight to become better and see how well I do against him. I don't just trash everyone, I helped & tipped about 50 people in this game. Most of them weren't pro.

I disagree, PWNawan, even 1 new player every 2 weeks is a much better long term prospect than no new players. Like I said already, even with the "abuse" we are still the most popular server, so obviously the veterans are having enough enjoyment to keep coming back, even with the "abuse." In addition to that, the new players - who are much more difficult to secure - are much more likely to be retained, giving JK2 a fighting chance of survival.

I'm not familiar with Tim, PWNawan. I just met him for the first time in the server today. He was nice to me, but most people are and I'm in his clan so it's to be expected. If what you say is true, it sounds like he is not being very sportsmanlike. If you want him to be sportsmanlike, probably the best way to elicit this attitude is to be completely respectful and sportsmanlike first, even in the face of disrespect.

LaaF, 3 times in 2 months isn't very many. And it usually involves you, and you disrespect everyone.

hilp guys you post too fast i don't even have time to read everything !

NEW RULE : BAN FOR DISRESPECT

That is actually against the server rules, Boss. It's on the MOTD. I would LOVE for that to be bannable.

NickdeClaw wrote:

I disagree, PWNawan, even 1 new player every 2 weeks is a much better long term prospect than no new players. Like I said already, even with the "abuse" we are still the most popular server, so obviously the veterans are having enough enjoyment to keep coming back, even with the "abuse." In addition to that, the new players - who are much more difficult to secure - are much more likely to be retained, giving JK2 a fighting chance of survival.

I'm not familiar with Tim, PWNawan. I just met him for the first time in the server today. He was nice to me, but most people are and I'm in his clan so it's to be expected. If what you say is true, it sounds like he is not being very sportsmanlike. If you want him to be sportsmanlike, probably the best way to elicit this attitude is to be completely respectful and sportsmanlike first, even in the face of disrespect.

LaaF, 3 times in 2 months isn't very many. And it usually involves you, and you disrespect everyone.

Yes it did involve me pro. I was involved in getting banned those 3 times. I disrespect scrubz, yet all the proz and even people I don't really know respect me. GG. Lolol

Aju: "hilp guys you post too fast i don't even have time to read everything !"
-We makin a book. Lol

Edit: and it was much, because each of those times was a week, so just the ban is a month. Lol

Speaking of sind, after my ban was lifted, i went to server and played by the rules.

he pms me trying to start something (he was like "dont start" etc etc)

i dont pm him back, but rather use public chat to ask him to please not talk to me, as to avoid confrontation.

then, lunar)strain,if starts laming me(in the temple, after him and sindwinder dueled and exchanged some whispers).

i ask him to stop laming me, and sindwinder immedietly lies and says i attacked lunar first, which wasnt true. the only reason i can come up with him doing this would be because i whispered to pilgrim to please intervene, and that sindwinder was letting him lame me and turning a blind eye.

now, i dont know if he asked lunar to do it, and i wont say he did, however, he did witness it, and did lie on lunars behalf and turned a blind eye to me, and refused to uphold the rules.

this is the same as admin abuse.

"There are two types of evil in the world. The evil that allows a bad man to rob and murder, which is the lesser of two evils. The second evil is that of a good man who witnesses these things and turns a blind eye. the indifference of crime in a good man is far more evil than the crimes commited by a bad man."

PWNawan, I just checked the logs, and you whispered Sindwinder about Sindwinder letting Lunar lame you, you didn't whisper Kernow. You must have targeted the wrong person or /tell'd the wrong number. That's why Sindwinder said you were sad, because you sent it right to him. Also, I didn't see Sind send any whispers to Lunar.

i did /tell so i must have targeted the wrong person, and i appologise. however, that doesnt justify him allowing lunar to lame me in the temple, simply because he was pissed about what has been happening between him and i.

That's true, but it was also to be expected. Admins aren't robots, they have emotions and I think it's fair to not expect Sind to help you out when he's pissed at you. It may not be the mark of a perfect admin, but it doesn't make him a bad person or even necessarily a bad admin.